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Offline BiynaYahu  
#1 Posted : Monday, August 18, 2008 5:07:56 PM(UTC)
BiynaYahu
Joined: 4/5/2008(UTC)
Posts: 314
Man
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Grace and shalom everyone,

I always come up against the same anti-Paul rhetoric. So, the two questions I have to ask are. When Paul said that Messiah came in the semblance of flesh is he at odds with Yahuchanon, and when he says that nature teaches that men should not have long hair doesn't that make it difficult to take a Nazaritic oath? I'm sure looking at the greek or you guys helping me build context will straighten this out.

Your loving brother,
Mike Browell
Someone who does not dearly love or welcome, entertain, look fondly upon or cherish people with strong affection or highly esteem them with great favour, goodwill or benevolence, be loyal to or greatly adore them has not known or understood, perceived or realized, noticed or discerned, discovered or observed, experienced or ascertained, learned about or distinguished, comprehended, acknowledged or recognized God*, for concerning this, God* is and exists as brotherly love and affection, good will, esteem and benevolence.
Offline bitnet  
#2 Posted : Monday, August 18, 2008 6:32:46 PM(UTC)
bitnet
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120

Shalom,

I'm sorry but where is it said that Paul is at odds with Yahuchanon regarding the Messiyah as a human? Nazaritic oaths are only temporary and it does indicate that the person is set-apart unto Yahweh. If the others were keeping long hair out of style, then how does one differentiate them in a social setting? Not forgetting that the beard and moustache shall also grow and should be pretty obvious indicators if left unkempt, the duration of each oath varies from person to person, but usually for 30 days only unless otherwise specified. During that time hair does not grow that much (one to two inches) , so the length of which should not be an issue for most Nazirites. What is cautioned about the long hair is to become effeminate, which is unacceptable. Nazirites with long hair usually bound their hair in a turban anyway and it really is not a vanity issue.
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline BiynaYahu  
#3 Posted : Monday, August 18, 2008 7:03:59 PM(UTC)
BiynaYahu
Joined: 4/5/2008(UTC)
Posts: 314
Man
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Grace and shalom Bitnet,

Thank you brother for your quick and loving reply. This is the verse they are talking about;
Quote:
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:


but now when I look at this it is saying the likeness of sinful flesh meaning he had perfect flesh, but human non-the-less. It's so true when Peter warned that people would twist Paul's words.

And on the note of the long hair I agree with you and did from the beginning. I was just seeing how you would answer. That was thrown to me in a chat. But I also came across yahuah.org which is anti-paul. Call me sentimental, but I'm not willing to throw away 2/3 of the renewed covenant scriptures. In order to eliminate paul you also have to get rid of 2 Kepha, Acts, and the Good News of Luke

Your loving brother,
Mike Br.
Someone who does not dearly love or welcome, entertain, look fondly upon or cherish people with strong affection or highly esteem them with great favour, goodwill or benevolence, be loyal to or greatly adore them has not known or understood, perceived or realized, noticed or discerned, discovered or observed, experienced or ascertained, learned about or distinguished, comprehended, acknowledged or recognized God*, for concerning this, God* is and exists as brotherly love and affection, good will, esteem and benevolence.
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#4 Posted : Monday, August 18, 2008 11:36:03 PM(UTC)
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another example of people throwing baby out with bathwater.

Just been reading Swalch's translation on this

Quote:

So now, at this present moment in time, no one, nobody and nothing is able to evaluate and separate, sunder and judge, condemn and sentence, pronounce doom or declare punishment to those in, by and with Messiah* Yahushua*. For the reason that the Law, the teachings and precepts, instructions and commandments of the Torah of the Spirit* of life and continued existence has freed and liberated, released and delivered you in, by and with Messiah* Yahushua*, separating you from the law and commandment, custom and rule, tradition and order, statue and ordinance of sin and error, the miss of the mark and mistakes, the fallen state that violates the law of the Supreme one and wanders from the way and from the state of uprightness and of death and separation, the separation of the soul from the Supreme One’s presence. For the reason that what the Law, the teachings and precepts, instructions and commandments of the Torah were unable and incapable, powerless and unauthorised to do due to the impossibility imposed through the means of and on the grounds of, on account of and for the reason of, on the basis of and because of the weakness and powerlessness, neediness and feebleness, limitation and poorness that is in, by and with the fleshy and carnal human nature, God* did instead, having sent and dispatched, dismissed and appointed His Son* in, by and with the likeness and shape, figure and resemblance, correspondence and appearance of sinful and erroneous, wicked and impious human flesh, and about and concerning, regarding and on account of, because of and with respect to sin and error, the miss of the mark and mistakes, the violation of the law of the Supreme One and the wandering from the Way and from the state of uprightness, he evaluated and separated, sundered and judged, condemned and sentenced, pronounced doom and declared punishment upon sin and error, the miss of the mark and mistakes, the violation of the law of the Supreme One and the wandering from the Way and from the state of uprightness in, by and with the fleshy and mortal body, so that and in order that the righteous and just, upright and virtuous, faultless and guiltless, fair and approved, accepted and established acts and ordinances, commandments and requirements, laws and decrees, statues, deeds and regulations of the Law, the teachings and precepts, instructions and commandments of the Torah may be completed and fulfilled, accomplished, perfected and celebrated, executed and carried out, finished and concluded, ratified and satisfied, realised and effective, performed and obeyed as they should be in, by and with us, those who walk and behave, live, conduct and regulate their lives, works and actions not according to or with regards to, in relation to or with respect to the flesh and corrupt human nature, but nevertheless, notwithstanding and on the contrary, those who walk and behave according to and with regards to, in relation to and with respect to the Spirit*. For the reason that those who exist in accordance with and with regards to, in relation to and with respect to the flesh and corrupt human nature set their minds upon and think about, cherish and strive for, seek after and have regard for, ponder and dwell upon, contemplate and fix their attention upon the things of the flesh and corrupt human nature, but nevertheless, those who exist in accordance with and with regards to, in relation to and with respect to the Spirit* set their minds upon and fix their attention on the things of the Spirit*. For this reason, setting the mind upon and thinking about, cherishing and striving for, seeking after and having regard for, pondering and dwelling upon, contemplating and fixing attention upon the flesh and corrupt human nature brings death and separation, the separation of the soul from the Supreme One’s presence, but nevertheless, setting the mind upon and thinking about, cherishing and striving for, seeking after and having regard for, pondering and dwelling upon, contemplating and fixing attention upon the Spirit* is life and continued existence, and is also peace and tranquillity, harmony and concord, security and safety, prosperity and freedom, exemption from chaos, felicity and the assurance of salvation. For this reason and on this account, because of this and for this purpose, the mind that is set upon and thinks about, cherishes and strives for, seeks after and has regard for, ponders and dwells upon, contemplates and fixes its attention upon the flesh and corrupt human nature is enmity, animosity and hostile towards God*, hating Him and resenting Him, for the reason that it does not submit to or become ordered, arranged or governed, set or placed under the control of God’s* Law, His teachings and precepts, instructions and commandments outlined in the Torah, for the reason that it is impossible and unable, incapable, powerless and is without the strength and might to do so. Also, those who are and exist in, by and with the flesh and corrupt human nature do not have the authority or power, right or ability, permission or freedom, energy or might, force or influence, capability or significance to please or flatter, win favour from, satisfy or gratify God*. But nevertheless, you do not exist in, by or with the flesh and corrupt human nature, but nevertheless, notwithstanding and on the contrary, you exist in, by and with Spirit* if the Spirit* of God* does indeed dwell and live, inhabit and reside, abide and is situated within and inside of you. But nevertheless, if someone does not have or hold, receive or acquire, own or possess the Spirit* of Messiah*, this is not of Him. But nevertheless, if Messiah* is within and inside of you all, the mortal body and flesh is indeed, truly and surely dead and lifeless, deceased and inanimate through the means of and on the grounds of, on account of and for the reason of, on the basis of and because of sin and error, the miss of the mark and mistakes, the violation of the law of the Supreme One and the wandering from the Way and from the state of uprightness, and the Spirit* is life and continued existence through the means of and on the grounds of, on account of and for the reason of, on the basis of and because of righteousness and validation, acceptance and vindication, uprightness, justice and acquittance. Moreover, if the Spirit* of Him Who raised and lifted up, awakened and restored Yahushua* from out of the dead and lifeless, deceased and inanimate, dwells and lives, inhabits and resides, abides and is situated within and inside of you all, He Who raised and lifted up, awakened and restored Messiah* from out of the dead and lifeless, deceased and inanimate will also restore and invigorate, produce, provide and give life and continued existence to your mortal bodies that are subject to death and separation through the means of and on the grounds of, on account of and for the reason of, on the basis of and because of His Spirit* that indwells and lives, inhabits and resides, abides and is situated within and inside all of you.


you can get the rest of it here http://www.thewaytoyahuweh.com/nt_tran/ver1/ntromans.htm

I like that section lol
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline BiynaYahu  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, August 19, 2008 7:52:39 AM(UTC)
BiynaYahu
Joined: 4/5/2008(UTC)
Posts: 314
Man
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Grace and shalom Robski,

Thank you av' YAHUWEH for our brother Paulos, and the great wisdom you provided him. Thank you for your great name and thank you for my brothers here constantly uplifting and loving. May we all continue to grow in humility of mind and boldness of spirit in YAHUshua ma'sehyah! Amein.

Oh, and you should try to get on Paltalk more!

Your loving brother,
Mike Br.
Someone who does not dearly love or welcome, entertain, look fondly upon or cherish people with strong affection or highly esteem them with great favour, goodwill or benevolence, be loyal to or greatly adore them has not known or understood, perceived or realized, noticed or discerned, discovered or observed, experienced or ascertained, learned about or distinguished, comprehended, acknowledged or recognized God*, for concerning this, God* is and exists as brotherly love and affection, good will, esteem and benevolence.
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, August 19, 2008 11:08:25 AM(UTC)
Robskiwarrior
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Location: England

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yea I know, I go through a period of remebering Paltalk, then I just forget to log in! Plus I hate all the adverts lol
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline BiynaYahu  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, August 19, 2008 11:12:14 AM(UTC)
BiynaYahu
Joined: 4/5/2008(UTC)
Posts: 314
Man
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Sometimes I think one of us should start an IRC server. We could start different channels for different types of discussion. I like IRC.
Someone who does not dearly love or welcome, entertain, look fondly upon or cherish people with strong affection or highly esteem them with great favour, goodwill or benevolence, be loyal to or greatly adore them has not known or understood, perceived or realized, noticed or discerned, discovered or observed, experienced or ascertained, learned about or distinguished, comprehended, acknowledged or recognized God*, for concerning this, God* is and exists as brotherly love and affection, good will, esteem and benevolence.
Offline BiynaYahu  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, August 19, 2008 3:23:52 PM(UTC)
BiynaYahu
Joined: 4/5/2008(UTC)
Posts: 314
Man
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Grace and shalom Swalcherella,

(I enjoy appending false ends on peoples names. I enjoy it, and it means I like you enough to try and annoy you... like siblings) I agree, totally on every point. Although, if I could find a good tutorial, and a sufficient server/internet connection. Let's just say I've been hoping for a way to pitch in on all of this. I could even write up a tutorial on how to download, and install a client. Plus, how to get onto our server, and channel.

Your loving brother,
Mike Br.
Someone who does not dearly love or welcome, entertain, look fondly upon or cherish people with strong affection or highly esteem them with great favour, goodwill or benevolence, be loyal to or greatly adore them has not known or understood, perceived or realized, noticed or discerned, discovered or observed, experienced or ascertained, learned about or distinguished, comprehended, acknowledged or recognized God*, for concerning this, God* is and exists as brotherly love and affection, good will, esteem and benevolence.
Offline BiynaYahu  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, August 19, 2008 10:30:11 PM(UTC)
BiynaYahu
Joined: 4/5/2008(UTC)
Posts: 314
Man
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Grace and shalom everyone,
I'm actually in a chat with an anti-Paulist right now in the eliyah.com IRC room. I'm actually pretty confused at the statements said person is making without any evidence:

Quote:
well, i can point out 6 ways from sun-day, where paul lied, misquoted the hebrew scriptures, contradicted himself, and entertained pagan philosophies


I pray that YAHUWEH will give me the wisdom, which I lack completely, to set things right, in order, and straight. Please dad allow us all to grow in wisdom, and truth in your set-apart, and cleansed spirit. Amein!

Your loving brother,
Mike Br.
Someone who does not dearly love or welcome, entertain, look fondly upon or cherish people with strong affection or highly esteem them with great favour, goodwill or benevolence, be loyal to or greatly adore them has not known or understood, perceived or realized, noticed or discerned, discovered or observed, experienced or ascertained, learned about or distinguished, comprehended, acknowledged or recognized God*, for concerning this, God* is and exists as brotherly love and affection, good will, esteem and benevolence.
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, August 19, 2008 11:20:13 PM(UTC)
Robskiwarrior
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Location: England

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What were his 6 ways? I would be interested in hearing them :)
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline bitnet  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, August 20, 2008 5:50:43 AM(UTC)
bitnet
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120

Shalom,

BY, whenever someone attacks an apostle, it is good to know what he is really criticizing. Many people are often misled by all sorts of previous doctrines. I am surprised that this anti-Paulician was in the eliyah.com website as there is a wonderful 35-page article there on Galatians. If this person has not read it but continues to criticize Paulos/Shaul then he is probably a rabbinical Jew with little respect for the Brit Chadasha and does little for himself in not reading the articles there. I reckon you can always deflect this person by prompting him to read up the Galatians letter as expounded by eliyah.com right where you met him.
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline BiynaYahu  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, August 20, 2008 3:44:40 PM(UTC)
BiynaYahu
Joined: 4/5/2008(UTC)
Posts: 314
Man
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Shalom and grace everyone,

Actually a 'Judaizer' did enter the room while we were discussing this, and tried to tell us the entire RC scriptures were written in Hebrew, and the person I was speaking with was having none of that. They 'seemed' to be a sincere believer in YAHUshua ha ma'sehyah, and in the end said that the TaNaKh had it's own issue. So, it sounds to me like it's a believer who got caught up in the corruptions of scripture and is losing faith. You have to believe YAHUWEH is powerful enough to transmit his message through the millenniums.

Your loving brother,
Mike Br.
Someone who does not dearly love or welcome, entertain, look fondly upon or cherish people with strong affection or highly esteem them with great favour, goodwill or benevolence, be loyal to or greatly adore them has not known or understood, perceived or realized, noticed or discerned, discovered or observed, experienced or ascertained, learned about or distinguished, comprehended, acknowledged or recognized God*, for concerning this, God* is and exists as brotherly love and affection, good will, esteem and benevolence.
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