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Offline Yada  
#1 Posted : Monday, June 30, 2008 6:13:11 PM(UTC)
Yada
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 3,537

I found this on Dr. Michael Brown's web site, "Think It Thru." How would answer these questions?

Quote:


Although volume five of Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus, dealing with Traditional Jewish Objections, will not be available until 2008 or 2009, here is a preview of the questions that will be answered in the fifth (and final) volume of the series.

Objection: 6.1. We have an unbroken, authoritative chain of tradition going back to Moses! Who are you to teach us what our Bible says?


Objection: 6.2. On several occasions, the Written Torah makes reference to “Torahs” in the plural, meaning two Torahs. This obviously refers to the Written and Oral Torahs.


Objection: 6.3. The Torah (along with the rest of the Hebrew Bible) is unintelligible without the Rabbinic traditions. From circumcision to Sabbath observance, from the vowels of the Masoretic text to the Messiah, we can only understand the Scriptures with the help of our traditions. Even common sense would tell you that every set of laws and rules needs ongoing oral explanation and interpretation. And let’s also be realistic. Who am I to think that can I understand the Bible on my own? I have to ask my rabbi. In the same way that I go to the doctor with medical questions and the lawyer with legal questions, I go to the rabbi with spiritual and biblical questions. Who am I to differ with him?

Objection: 6.4. According to Deut 17:8-13, the rabbis have the sole authority to interpret the Law and to tell us how to live. Whoever refuses to listen to them is guilty of a serious sin in the sight of God.

Objection: 6.5. We have an eternal covenant that was given at Mt. Sinai, and anyone who tells us to deviate from that covenant is either a false prophet, a false teacher, or both. Just look at the last verse in your “Old Testament.” What does it say? Remember the Law of Moses! That’s why we reject Christianity. It’s a foreign religion and a deviation from Sinai.


Objection: 6.6. Various passages in the Tanakh demonstrate that biblical figures such as Daniel followed the Rabbinic traditions. For example, according to Daniel 1, he wouldn’t eat certain foods – just as the rabbis teach, but something not required in the written Torah – and according to Daniel 6, he prayed three times each day – just as the rabbis teach! Similarly, Nehemiah 13 follows the Rabbinic understanding that forbids buying and selling on the Sabbath, although this is not explicitly spelled out in the written Torah.


Objection: 6.7. Modern computer studies have demonstrated that the Torah and the Oral Law are divinely inspired. Haven’t you heard of the Bible Codes? And there are indisputable examples proving that the Oral Law was supernaturally inspired. For example, only the Oral Law knew the exact length of a lunar month – and I mean exact. Modern science confirms this.


Objection: 6.8. Our tradition is totally self-sufficient -- our prayer books, our commentaries, our law codes, our customs. We don’t need your Jesus!


Objection: 6.9. Judaism is anything but a dead religion. It has inspired and preserved millions of our people for thousands of years. In fact, as far as spirituality is concerned, Christianity is a decided step down for a Jew. The rabbis and religious Jews, both men and women, who survived the Crusades, Inquisition, and Holocaust without wavering in their faith are a testimony to the vitality of Judaism.

Objection 6.10. According to Deut 30:11-14, it is not difficult to keep the Torah, which is God’s special gift to Israel. This is completely contrary to the Christian view that sees the Law as an impossible-to-observe burden and as a curse.



Objection: 6.11. The only identifiable Jews today are those whose parents, grandparents, or great grandparents rejected Christianity. Only those who were traditional Jews have survived as a people.


Objection: 6.12. Judaism is a unique religion. Of all the religions of the world, only Judaism began with a public revelation witnessed by the entire nation. No one and nothing can alter that fact or change the substance of that revelation.


Objection: 6.13. Judaism is a rational, reasonable religion. It says, “Use your mind,” not, “Shut off your mind.” Christianity, on the other hand, is illogical and unreasonable. It demands absolute faith without any rational proof.


Objection: 6.14. Anything good in the New Testament can already be found in Rabbinic Judaism; anything new in the New Testament is not good.

Objection: 6.15. Jesus himself taught in Matthew 23 that his Jewish followers were to submit to the scribes and the Pharisees -- in other words, to follow the Oral Law!

Objection: 6.16. Traditional Jews are the people of the Book. Read the Hebrew Scriptures and ask yourself, “Who follows these laws and commandments?” Traditional Jews!

Objection: 6.17. According to Psalm 19, the Torah is able to save and convert the soul.


Objection: 6.18. You can have your Jesus. I’ll keep my Judaism. You have nothing I need or want.
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Offline bitnet  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, July 2, 2008 12:51:40 AM(UTC)
bitnet
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120

I humbly await his answers. I've found most of it in the YY site, especially in KP's tome on What Maimonides Missed.
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline kp  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, July 2, 2008 10:03:41 AM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

Okay, I'll take a whack at this.

Objection: 6.1. We have an unbroken, authoritative chain of tradition going back to Moses! Who are you to teach us what our Bible says? Yes, too bad your traditions conflict with the Authority. We would not presume to try to teach you, but you aren't listening to Yahweh's Ruach Qodesh, so we would be remiss in not trying.

Objection: 6.2. On several occasions, the Written Torah makes reference to “Torahs” in the plural, meaning two Torahs. This obviously refers to the Written and Oral Torahs. No it doesn't. Torah simply means instruction, and there are many instructions, many Torahs, in the Torah. Your man-made traditions, however, are not among them.

Objection: 6.3. The Torah (along with the rest of the Hebrew Bible) is unintelligible without the Rabbinic traditions. That's about as dumb as me insisting that the Torah is unintelligible without The Owner's Manual. Since the rabbis are not remotely in agreement about what it teaches, this statement is false on the face of it.

Objection: 6.4. According to Deut 17:8-13, the rabbis have the sole authority to interpret the Law and to tell us how to live. Whoever refuses to listen to them is guilty of a serious sin in the sight of God. Oh, I get it, you can't read! The passage refers to "priests and Levites," not to rabbis. When God said, "You shall not steal," that includes authority.

Objection: 6.5. We have an eternal covenant that was given at Mt. Sinai, and anyone who tells us to deviate from that covenant is either a false prophet, a false teacher, or both. Just look at the last verse in your “Old Testament.” What does it say? Remember the Law of Moses! That’s why we reject Christianity. It’s a foreign religion and a deviation from Sinai. The "Christian religion" is just as full of holes as Judaism is, it's true, but real Christianity, the adherence to Yahshua and acceptance of His messiahship is in perfect alignment with the Torah, as I have proved in The Owner's Manual. Open your eyes.

Objection: 6.6. Various passages in the Tanakh demonstrate that biblical figures such as Daniel followed the Rabbinic traditions. For example, according to Daniel 1, he wouldn’t eat certain foods – just as the rabbis teach, but something not required in the written Torah – and according to Daniel 6, he prayed three times each day – just as the rabbis teach! Similarly, Nehemiah 13 follows the Rabbinic understanding that forbids buying and selling on the Sabbath, although this is not explicitly spelled out in the written Torah. Daniel and Nehemiah weren't following rabbinical custom, but rather their consciences. If you're going to appeal to Daniel as an authority, you should be aware that he prophesied the coming of Messiah in Daniel 9:25---from Nisan 1, 444BC to Nisan 10 (March 28) 33AD, 173,880 days after Artaxerxes' decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem. Yahshua fulfilled that prophecy, and hundreds of others. Or are you only interested in the scriptures you like?

Objection: 6.7. Modern computer studies have demonstrated that the Torah and the Oral Law are divinely inspired. Haven’t you heard of the Bible Codes? And there are indisputable examples proving that the Oral Law was supernaturally inspired. For example, only the Oral Law knew the exact length of a lunar month – and I mean exact. Modern science confirms this. What's your point? Real Christians agree that the Torah is inspired, though not your traditions. You only have to be smart, not inspired, to calculate the length of the lunar month.

Objection: 6.8. Our tradition is totally self-sufficient -- our prayer books, our commentaries, our law codes, our customs. We don’t need your Jesus! If your tradition is sufficient, then why have the curses of Deuteronomy 28 fallen on your people like a hammer on an anvil for the past three thousand years? You are so far from being blessed in the manner God promised for people who "diligently obey the voice of Yahweh your God," it's silly. You're not in the center of God's will; you're in the center of a state of denial concerning your status. The only reason you haven't gone the way of the Canaanites is because of the promises Yahweh made to Abraham.

Objection: 6.9. Judaism is anything but a dead religion. It has inspired and preserved millions of our people for thousands of years. In fact, as far as spirituality is concerned, Christianity is a decided step down for a Jew. The rabbis and religious Jews, both men and women, who survived the Crusades, Inquisition, and Holocaust without wavering in their faith are a testimony to the vitality of Judaism. Gee, Yahweh describes you as "dead" in Ezekiel 37---you're a valley of dry bones. But maybe you're smarter than He is.

Objection 6.10. According to Deut 30:11-14, it is not difficult to keep the Torah, which is God’s special gift to Israel. This is completely contrary to the Christian view that sees the Law as an impossible-to-observe burden and as a curse. If the Torah is all that easy to keep, let's meet at the Sanctuary (as required) next Passover and we'll talk it over with the High Priest. What? There is no Sanctuary? There is no priesthood? Only rabbis who've usurped their position and rewritten their function? Then you can't keep the letter of the Torah.

Objection: 6.11. The only identifiable Jews today are those whose parents, grandparents, or great grandparents rejected Christianity. Only those who were traditional Jews have survived as a people. And the only identifiable Jews twenty-five years from now will be those who have recognized and embraced Yahshua as their Messiah---as Christians do today. If you don't believe me, the passage of time will reveal who's right. No, I take that back---there's always dental records to fall back on.

Objection: 6.12. Judaism is a unique religion. Of all the religions of the world, only Judaism began with a public revelation witnessed by the entire nation. No one and nothing can alter that fact or change the substance of that revelation. Yeah. Too bad you've turned your back on the revelation, while Yahshua's followers have embraced it.

Objection: 6.13. Judaism is a rational, reasonable religion. It says, “Use your mind,” not, “Shut off your mind.” Christianity, on the other hand, is illogical and unreasonable. It demands absolute faith without any rational proof. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. The reality is that Judaism insists you can work your way to God, while Christians know that only His grace will save us. That's not illogical, it's only counterintuitive. It's not unreasonable, it's the only possible rational solution for reconciliation with a holy God.

Objection: 6.14. Anything good in the New Testament can already be found in Rabbinic Judaism; anything new in the New Testament is not good. There is nothing new in the "New Testament." It merely explains how the prophecies and instructions of the Tanach came to fruition---or would as time passed. The two "testaments" do not stand independently. By the way, your statement runs afoul of the third commandment. Sorry.

Objection: 6.15. Jesus himself taught in Matthew 23 that his Jewish followers were to submit to the scribes and the Pharisees -- in other words, to follow the Oral Law! Half truths are dangerous. Yes He said to do what they said (because they were speaking of the tenets of Moses) but He immediately followed that injunction by the warning against doing what they do! Yahshua said, in other words, do what Moses said to do, but don't follow the example of the scribes and Pharisees, for they don't.

Objection: 6.16. Traditional Jews are the people of the Book. Read the Hebrew Scriptures and ask yourself, “Who follows these laws and commandments?” Traditional Jews! No, you don't. You follow your own traditions.

Objection: 6.17. According to Psalm 19, the Torah is able to save and convert the soul. That's because the Torah speaks unequivocably about Yahshua the Messiah between every line. Again, read The Owner's Manual.

Objection: 6.18. You can have your Jesus. I’ll keep my Judaism. You have nothing I need or want. At last. Something we can agree on! Oh, you need Him all right, you just don't want Him. And Yahweh is willing to let you make your own mind up on the matter. Don't forget to wave bye-bye to your fellow Israelites when they see the deliverance of Yahweh with their own eyes and decide that Yahshua was the Messiah after all, leaving you and your subborn and stiffnecked generation---two thirds of all Israel, according to Zechariah---to die in your unbelief.

kp
Offline bitnet  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, July 2, 2008 11:13:10 PM(UTC)
bitnet
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120

I've watched a few of Dr Michael Brown's videos and I think that he can put up a reasonable debate to these questions usually posed by Orthodox Jews. I'd actually like to post KP's responses to Dr Brown so that he can use it as an example for answers from non-Orthodox Jews who rely on the same Scriptures as they do. But I also think that Dr Brown already has answers.
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline kp  
#5 Posted : Thursday, July 3, 2008 5:59:54 AM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

Feel free, bitnet.

kp
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