logo
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
View
Go to last post Go to first unread
Offline Yada  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, June 18, 2008 6:34:42 PM(UTC)
Yada
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 3,537

The following is an exchange between"MO" and Yada.

Quote:
On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 1:35 PM, "MO" wrote:

Hello Sir,

I was delighted to read the Chapter on Hayah/Existance. I have been following investigations on the topic of Bible mistranslations and manuscripts primacy since 2004.

I would like to read or hear your opinion on the Aramaic New Testament primacy, specially with respect to David Bauscher's and Andrew Gabriel Roth's writings.

Both of their conclusions, and of other authors, have been compiled by Raphael Lataster in a book "Was the New Testament really written in Greek" available online for free at:

http://www.raphaellataster.com/

The INTRODUCCTION READS:

This book is not about religion

This book is not about whether or not Christianity is the true fatih'.

This book is not about whether we were created by God or by chance.

This book is about whether the New Testament was written in Greek, or in Aramaic.

PLEASE, I know you must be very busy, but I hear in your audios you mention THE GREEK and Hebrew LANGUAGES, so you must have true sources to support this.

Thank you so much.

Yahweh's Peace be with you,

MO


Yada's response:

Quote:
M,

A couple of years ago I tried to ascertain how many Aramaic first, second, and third century RC MSS were available to study. I was unable to find any. The sites I visited all seemed to suggest that the Peshitta text is a fifth century affair, dated to around 464. Since there are 69 first through third century MSS covering virtually every book in the RC in Greek, some dating to around 65 to 90 CE, the claim of an earlier Aramaic version is moot.

Until at least a handful of comprehensive Aramaic MSS dating to the late first or early second century can be found, the 69 Greek MSS from the first through third century remain the earliest witnesses of the RC. And if by chance there are some old MSS, then the site you reference should prove their existence and end the speculation.

From my perspective, even if we could find early Aramaic texts, it wouldn't make a huge difference apart from verification. So much of the RC is composed of citations of the OC, it's very easy to correct the Greek text to reflect the intended meaning. That said, the more pre-Constantine, pre-Catholic, pre-Masorete evidences we have the better.

Yada


If you'd like to join the YY Study Group room on Paltalk - just click here. The lockword is: yadayahweh
You can download the free software here.
Hope to see everyone on Paltalk!
WARNING: Do not give out personal information (name, address, etc.) to anyone on Paltalk - ever!
Offline Yada  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, June 18, 2008 6:38:25 PM(UTC)
Yada
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 3,537

The conversation between "MO" and Yada continues:

Quote:
On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 2:05 PM, MO wrote:

Yada,

Thank VERY much for responding. Very well, I believe you. I will contact this guys and see what they have to say.

A year and a half ago I begun translating English/Spanish the book "The History of the Sabbath" by JN Andrews which I have finished and will be on the internet probably next week.

I have already begun translating your Yada Yahweh English/Spanish. You know, I have looked for the TRUTH for so many years, I am not going to stop.

Please forgive me for being nearly rude, but I find people in high places are so strange, they just don't think on the rest of the world (speaking other languages apart from English) having to stick to that kind of "RUBISH" as you call it. I will be sending every chapter I finish: right now I attach the first few pages I have translated (I begun yesterday). These is just a draft.

MO


Yada's response:

Quote:
M.

It's not about believing anyone. I'm not an expert in Aramaic and I'm not worthy of your trust. I'm no different than you are. I'm unqualified but curious. I've invested the time and have shared what I learned--that's all.

Because I was interested in the claims you have referenced, on two occasions I invested some time looking for old Aramaic manuscripts. If they existed, and if these fellows were accurately translating them, I would have used them as an additional source of information. But, I was unable to find anything older than the fifth century. In fact in my most recent scan of sites I was horrified by what I read. Most everyone is conveying misinformation regarding the status of the earliest RC MSS.

If my memory serves me the fellows you are referencing used textual similarities and entomologies to derive their conclusions, but not old manuscripts. If I'm wrong, let me know. And since Aramaic is more similar to Hebrew than Greek, and since Yahushua spoke Aramaic, as did His audience, the work they are doing has merit.

My only point is that without a similar stash of seventy first through third century MSS, their primacy argument is speculative. But more importantly, without earlier witnesses to an Aramaic text, even if their claim were true, it wouldn't matter. Over the course of 400 years, especially with religious influence, there is almost no chance a manuscript remained consistent.

My feeling is that some of the autographs may have been written in Hebrew as well. But since we don't have an extant MSS in Hebrew, even if I'm right there is no benefit to knowing this.

Also, keep in mind that Yahushua's answer to most ever question was: the answer is in the Torah, Prophets, and Psalms. That is to say, we aren't reliant on the Greek manuscripts or on the Renewed Covenant writings. They are helpful to be sure, but they were never intended to be the source of our salvation or understanding.

I'd love for Spanish speaking people to be able to read the insights presented in Yada Yahweh. We appreciate you doing this. As you make progress, we'll post your results. I see most English translations as rubbish so I wouldn't be surprised if they are equally flawed in other languages.

I know just enough Spanish from my high school days a zillion years ago to see that the thoughts are conveyed in broad strokes. Well done. Our webmaster is much better acquainted with Spanish than I am so I'm sure he'll enjoy it even more.

My only claim to being a "person in a high place" is that Yahuweh has taken a fallen and flawed person there. There is no Yada Yahweh staff, hierarchy, office, or organization. It's me, a retired friend who is currently devoted to the Owner's Manual, and the very significant part time contributions of my friend and webmaster and my friend and forum moderator. So you've got a couple of retired guys and a couple of part timers. It's not much to brag about.

Yada



If you'd like to join the YY Study Group room on Paltalk - just click here. The lockword is: yadayahweh
You can download the free software here.
Hope to see everyone on Paltalk!
WARNING: Do not give out personal information (name, address, etc.) to anyone on Paltalk - ever!
Offline Matthew  
#3 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2008 3:56:43 AM(UTC)
Matthew
Joined: 10/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,191
Man
Location: São Paulo, Brazil

Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 2 post(s)
Interesting post. My question is: why is there a push to prove that the original is in Aramaic? Does it differ from the Greek in any great way?

Yada wrote:
If they existed, and if these fellows were accurately translating them, I would have used them as an additional source of information.


Is Yada trying to say that there might be a hidden agenda behind their translation of Aramaic into English?
Offline edStueart  
#4 Posted : Friday, November 14, 2008 9:06:39 AM(UTC)
edStueart
Joined: 10/29/2008(UTC)
Posts: 370
Location: Philadelphia

I made a video that addresses the Greek/Aramaic Primacy debate, you can see it by clicking here.

(Quicktime verses WMV is addressed, too!)
"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
But first, it will piss you off!
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:52:42 AM(UTC)
Robskiwarrior
Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,470
Man
Location: England

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Basically if you have older Greek than Aramaic, you go from the Greek. Until older stuff is found, whether that be inGreek, Aramaic or Hebrew, you always go with the oldest document because it was closer historically to the events it records. Just because something is in a lauguage some people are more comfortable about the Messiah speaking, dosesnt mean its a reliable source.

Oldest is best, and like has been said, if they are older - where are they? lets have a look!
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.