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Offline Theophilus  
#1 Posted : Monday, July 30, 2007 7:19:58 AM(UTC)
Theophilus
Joined: 7/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 544
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Thanks: 4 times
This weekend I watched with great interest the 27 part Ark of the Covenant u-tube video clips series I found in another thread provided by Yada in the Blood Sample thread:http://yadanews.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=140

I have not been to Jerusalem and was wondering if any here have seen the garden tomb referenced can recall the lay of the land. I realize that the chruch of the holy seplechure marks the or a traditional site for the crucifixion and tomb the Messiyah was laid in. According to the video, while excavating around the site of the garden tomb in a proposed alternate site for the hill of the skull (and in the video it looked the part) a base and plugs for 4 crufixion wholes were unearthed. Also the remains of a building foundation made around the crufixion site at the base of the hill and a raised platform behind the crucifixion, and a 13 " across by 2+" thick round stone estimated to weigh 14 tons also within the building foundation area. The video claimed the stones dimensions matched that of the track of the garden tome's enternace which lacks the stone that one would expect to find over the face were it occupied.

The videos also explained that Jerusalem is built mostly upon Mt. Moriah that defends the city from attck on three sides, and a dry cut or moot was carved at the north end to make attacking from that direction more difficult. The video seemed to indicate that the garden tomb and skull hill crufixion site were along a road to the north of the city and it appeared at the beginning of the continuation of the mount beyond the cut along the west face of the hill. Is this correct?

Also are these other features, the crufixion site and large stone viewable? If the site was along a road would a structure built at the base effectively block traffic along the road heading north? The video reports the extraordinary claim of amateur archeologiest Ron Wyatt to have found the Ark of the Covenant within a carvern 20 feet below the central rear cross pug in the site which is described as having an earth quake crack run from this base to the cavern allow blood to spill from the cross to the mercy seat of the ark. The video also mentioned that the ark would've been hidden not in the city but underground outside the limits of the city but also not under the Babylonian seige lines. Would the area of the crufixion site in question be in the no mans land between the cit walls and the seige walls? Being at the base of the hill along a road / path prehaps it would be subject to projectile fire and be in no man's land even if it was beyonf the cut?

The videos and models did help me understand the claim much more than the written and photo accounts I viewed before. When I first read all of the claims I found them too fantastic, but have to say in seeing Mr. Wyatt speak for himself, I was impressed by his candor. While I'd love to see the area, I'd appreciate even knowing from others who have been there what their impressions were and how many of these details are actually viewable?

Here is a site showing some of what I'm attempting to describe:http://www.arkdiscovery.com/aoc-1.htm
Offline kp  
#2 Posted : Monday, July 30, 2007 7:14:43 PM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

I was in Jerusalem (with our buddy Yada) in December, 2001, doing research for Tea With Terrorists. Everything Ron Wyatt had to say, to my mind, has the ring of authenticity, and your general understanding of the topography is accurate. Mount Moriah is the foundation of Old Jerusalem. The 45 acre temple mount dominates the old city, its eastern edge forming the city wall at that point---overlooking the Kidron Brook and the Mount of Olives beyond it. South of the temple mount (downhill) is the city of David, and outside the wall is the Valley of Hinnom. On the western side of the temple mount, the "cheesmaker valley" lies beyond the jumbled city proper. The summit of Moriah is actually outside the old city wall, to the north and west. This is where the limestone was quarried most extensively, turning what would have been an indefensible ten-foot wall into a sixty-foot-high barrier. Zedekiah's cave (actually an arm of the quarry) is located in this area, as is Golgotha/Calvary. a.k.a. Bizita Hill. The road leading north toward Damascus runs just outside the old city wall on the west side of the city---right past the crucifixion site on the opposite side of the road from the city wall. The western gate in the old city wall is only a few hundred yards south of the crucifixion site. The "skull face" can be seen (it's clearer in hundred-year-old photos) behind the main city bus station, an area that was quarried out of the limestone rock face over two millennia ago. Just to the south of this, and up a slight rise, is the Garden Tomb. Wyatt's dig was actually on GT property, overlooking the bus station parking lot, only (if I remember correctly) about 40-50 yards from the tomb itself. The area at the top of the escarpment, by the way, is an ancient graveyard. The very large stone "table" that might have been the seal-stone is not in evidence, though there is a 4-5 foot diameter round disk displayed near the tomb proper (not large enough to cover the entrance, but they say that has been enlarged), the small seal-stone being typical of what might ordinarily have been used. The track running in front of the door, however, is quite a bit wider, and would have accomodated a much larger seal-stone. The crucifixion site that Wyatt's team excavated is not available for inspection. This site would have been pretty much at ground level in the first century, and not far from the road. The Romans liked their demonstrations of brutality up close and personal. There is no trace of Sennacherib's siege wall, of course, but we know it must have been at least a thousand feet from the city wall, because of the records of King Uzziah's seige defense weapons' capabilities. The crucifixion site is well within this distance, perhaps 200-300 feet outside the wall. The Church of the Holy Seplechure, by the way, is probably inside the old city wall (disqualifiying it from being the crucifixion site), though there's some disagreement as to which of several extant walls defined the city in the first century.

kp
Offline Theophilus  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, July 31, 2007 6:07:07 AM(UTC)
Theophilus
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Thank you so much for the descriptions. Being 200-300 feet would seem to be with in threat range of Babylonian or Judean weaponry of the era if fired from above at targets below so would be in the no man's land between the city wall and the seige lines.

I did see an older ariel photo that marked the Damascus gate, Gordon's (Wyatt's?) Calvary, Garden Tomb, and Skull Hill. The photo was high enough that I lost the sense of topography but see that these are close to one another.

It is disappointing to me that the larger seal stone and cruifixion site are not viewable as these would seem to me to be exciting artifacts and even without being able to see the cavern, go a long way towards substanting the claim. Do you know what became of these? Were they burried again? I recall something about the GT people requiring that the location be returned to the condition it was in before the dig.

Edited by user Tuesday, July 31, 2007 8:18:28 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline kp  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, July 31, 2007 7:58:08 AM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

Yes, the Garden Tomb folks, bless their hearts, are deathly afraid of controversy. They're staunchly British, and conservative as the day is long. The last thing they'd want to do would be to upset anyone. Can you imagine the uproar there would have been if Yahweh had allowed the ark to be brought out? As far as the big seal-stone is concerned, maybe the folks at www.WyattMuseum.com can tell you what happened to it.

Remember, nobody was wandering around in no-man's land when Jeremiah stashed the ark. The whole operation took place underground. Unlike Wyatt, digging from above, the "Saviors of the Lost Ark" went in from Zedekiah's cave.

kp
Offline rs  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, July 31, 2007 5:30:45 PM(UTC)
rs
Joined: 7/31/2007(UTC)
Posts: 35
Location: Dove Canyon, CA

kp,

Could you elaborate on Jeremiah's role with the Ark? I've been studying Jeremiah the last two weeks so would be interested in what his role was in secruing the Ark. I know he bought some land from an uncle and buried the deed of sale. Is it related to that?
Offline kp  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, July 31, 2007 6:39:48 PM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

Hi, rs, and welcome to the forum. Please read the II Maccabees passage I quoted in Future History, chapter 13: "Jerusalem, Jerusalem." Shoot, read the whole chapter. It should clarify Jeremiah's probable role in the hiding of the ark. In the meantime, yes, Jeremiah 32 describes the general "lay of the land," the situation being summed up nicely in verses 24 and following. Buying the land from his cousin was a sign that Jeremiah had been told by Yahweh that the coming deportation of Judah to Babylon would be temporary---the Jews would return. But the ark is not mentioned. (And no, the land he bought, being in Benjamite territory, was not its resting place.) The ark would never again be used in the service of the temple, and its annual Levitical function would be rendered forever obsolete 618 years later with the sacrifice of Yahshua the Messiah.

kp
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