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Offline Yada  
#1 Posted : Saturday, July 28, 2007 8:37:21 AM(UTC)
Yada
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 3,537

I am trying to understand the use of "Father" in Scripture. Here are a couple of passages I am tyring to understand:

1. "Be not called Rabbi for only One is your Master - the Messiah, and you are all brethren. And do not call men Father on earth, for only One is your Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called exalted leader, teacher or judge (kathegetes) for only One is your leader, teacher and judge - the Messiah." Since a Jewish cleric is called Rabbi, and Catholic clerics are called Father, according to God, they are as misguided as those who accept grandiose political and academic titles.

"For he that is the loudest and most powerful (megas) among you shall be the one who executes the commands of another (diakonos). And whoever exalts himself (hupsoo - uplifts himself in opulence, prosperity, and power) shall be abased (tapeinoo - reduced, made small or low, assigned to a diminished or depressed state), and he who shall humble himself shall be exalted and lifted up on high." (Matthew 23:9-12)

The above was taken from, Yada Yahweh, Book VI : God Damn Religion, The Church Age, Chapter 1, Krima, Damnation. The complete chapter can be found here.

2. 1 Corinthians 4:15 (NLT) "For even if you had ten thousand others to teach you about Christ, you have only one spiritual father. For I became your father in Christ Jesus when I preached the Good News to you."

Can someone provide me with some insight as to what Paul meant here by "father?"

Thanks.

-Yada


Edited by user Sunday, July 29, 2007 6:41:05 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline Noach  
#2 Posted : Saturday, July 28, 2007 9:32:05 AM(UTC)
Noach
Joined: 7/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 127

Yada,

Great topic. I guess the first question would be, are those the words Shaul actually wrote?

The ISR trtanslation I have renders the passage "For if you should have ten thousand instructors in Messiah, yet not many fathers, for in Messiah Yahushua I have brought you forth through the Good News."

The Restoration Scriptures Study Bible renders the passage "For though you have ten thousand Torah teachers in the Moshiach, yet you do not have many spiritual ahvot: for in MoshiachYahushua I have begotten you through the besorah."

The Strongs Concordance I have does not even list "father" for 1Cor 4:15.

Did Shaul even say the word "father"? Or was this something interpolated by translators? Do the oldest Greek manuscripts render the word "pater" here or something else?

Another idea is that Shaul is rendering a qoute from Yahushua as if Yahushua is speaking in the first person.

Let me know what you think

Noach
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