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Offline Yada  
#1 Posted : Sunday, June 8, 2008 7:54:22 PM(UTC)
Yada
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 3,537

I was listening to a Catholic apologetics room earlier today and Paltalk and they were criticising a 'Jack Chick' tract entitled, "Are Roman Catholics Christian?" (the complete tract is here). They were roaring with laughter as they ridiculed the factual content of the tract.

A little checking online revealed some interesting 'facts' about Catholic baptism. The site. "Love to Know Baby" explains that "A Catholic Baptism has origins steeped in history." Some further excerpts:

Quote:
History of Catholic Baptism

In the year 416 the Roman Empire made infant baptism compulsory. For centuries Roman Catholic tradition taught that if a baby died without being baptized they would go to a place called limbo. However, in April of 2007, Pope Benedict reversed this teaching on limbo. He also declared that the church would not revert to St. Augustine's teaching that infants who die without being baptized go to hell. Instead the Pope created a new doctrine: infants go to heaven baptized or not.


C'mon, make up your minds already. Does this mean that all those babies who were previously suffering in hell or in 'limbo' were suddenly whisked up to heaven courtesy of Pope Benedict's 2007 change of heart? What about all of those centuries of pain and torment the babies in hell had to endure? Oops, sorry about that.

The Jack Chick tract also claims that 'salt' and 'oil' are used during the baptismal ritual. This also drew another round of laughter and denial from the Catholic apologists, but according to the same web site:

Quote:
The Priest places a few grains of salt in the baby's mouth as a symbol of wisdom.
.

Regarding the use of oil:

Quote:
Priest anoints the baby with oil on the heart and between the shoulders tracing a small cross. This represents the oil of salvation in Jesus Christ.


Some other disturbing elements of the ritual include:

Quote:
The priest breathes into the child's face three times recalling the Spirit breath of God.


Quote:
The priest makes the Sign of the Cross over the child three times and prays for the exorcise of the unclean spirit in the name of the Trinity.


Quote:
Traditionally, the priest takes spittle on his finger and touches the ears and nostrils of the baby, but today for health reasons this step which comes from Mark 7:33-35 may be omitted.


The main Catholic apologist was condemning 'anti-Catholics' for their "lack of knowledge" about the Catholic Church, but all one has to do is to check it out for themselves. It appears that the information in the referenced Jack Chick tract is correct.

The web page "Love to Know Baby" I got the above quotations from is here.

You will find the complete Jack Chick tract below. Here is some more information about Roman Catholicism from the same site.

Edited by user Sunday, June 8, 2008 9:30:21 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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If you'd like to join the YY Study Group room on Paltalk - just click here. The lockword is: yadayahweh
You can download the free software here.
Hope to see everyone on Paltalk!
WARNING: Do not give out personal information (name, address, etc.) to anyone on Paltalk - ever!
Offline bitnet  
#2 Posted : Monday, June 9, 2008 12:33:15 AM(UTC)
bitnet
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120

Shalom,

As one brought up as a Catholic, it took me a while to question the faith of my fathers. I can only thank Abba Yahweh for calling me to know Him despite being where I am. I also understand that there is no difference in being Catholic or Protestant, whichever flavour, as all are in error just as much as traditional Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism and other religions.

Whatever the traditions that are held by these religions, only those called by Abba Yahweh may hear His voice and respond accordingly. Believers may come from any religion. The Jack Chick tracts are informative and yet not so helpful in that they do not draw people to Yahweh. The background of the authors of the tracts are also hugely questionable, and while they berate the Catholics, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons and others, the authors espouse a solution that does not seem in tandem with Scripture and some are blatantly in error. So, I'd be hesitant to endorse or promote the tracts.

I would rather take the high road and bring people to this forum or to the YY website and pass them more credible articles.
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline Yada  
#3 Posted : Monday, June 9, 2008 12:43:17 AM(UTC)
Yada
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 3,537

What I found interesting about the tract (and the reason I included it) was that so many of the pieces of information are also referenced in YY. The meaning of "IHS," "priests, nuns, and monks, having no Scriptural reference," "the origin and motivation for confessionals," etc. I'm always amazed at how other sources confirm what I've read in YY. I also thought that there might be some here who had never seen one of these tracts.

You mentioned the questionable background 'Chick Publishing.' Can you be more specific?

I'd sure love to here more about how you're bringing people to YY. I've been trying for quite some time and can't seem to get Catholics as well as Protestant friends interested in reading it.

Sure wish I could be on the 'high road' with you. What's the secret of your success?

If you'd like to join the YY Study Group room on Paltalk - just click here. The lockword is: yadayahweh
You can download the free software here.
Hope to see everyone on Paltalk!
WARNING: Do not give out personal information (name, address, etc.) to anyone on Paltalk - ever!
Offline bitnet  
#4 Posted : Monday, June 9, 2008 1:42:09 AM(UTC)
bitnet
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120

My success? I have none! Sure I have shared the information and one person has re-united with Abba Yahweh in Messiyah Yahushua's Name, and I have raised interest in a few others but it is not me who did the conversion! Abba Yahweh's Set-Apart Spirit did it together with the individual's effort to gain understanding. I am just a conduit, and even then a poor one and hope to be better. I just keep talking and giving information.

My background in multi-level marketing has taught me that the greatest networker is our beloved Messiyah Yahushua. He had 12 front-line disciples who built their downlines by sharing His Good News and this was repeated for everyone's benefit. The main features are that communication is important and that the product must be beneficial for all mankind and that the message must be truthful and consistent.

The company I was drawn to for business promotes non-toxic personal care and home care products and if I can communicate the need of such products that are compatible with human needs with respect for the environment, then sharing the Besorah of Messiyah Yahushua is not too different but on a spiritual level. But I have to know the "product" and show enthusiasm!

You see, people don't care about how much you know until they know how much you care! If your work does not reflect this aspect, then trying to get them on the same page for Salvation is going to be harder than trying to sell them the concept of good health based on the avoidance of toxic chemicals. It's almost the same exercise. Good health, spiritual or physical, depends upon the avoidance of toxins, or sins!

Trying to get people to understand the reverse is also difficult... that people who try to lead a good spiritual life must not neglect their physical bodies they are given! Too many people focus on one and not the other. If I talk to someone "spiritual" about this they think I am out to make a quick buck by recruiting them into a dubious marketing scheme! So I am always trying to educate people first, and to do that one must be well grounded and constantly in communication with the source of the product as well as the recipient of the message.

As for Chick's background, the Catholics have a rebuttal on http://www.catholic.com/...y/sr_chick_tracts_p1.asp and subsequent pages. From our perspective, it really does put their ideas about their religion into proper light: that practically all of Christianity is wrong but don't realise it yet!

Edited by user Monday, June 9, 2008 3:56:18 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline Yada  
#5 Posted : Friday, June 13, 2008 5:43:29 PM(UTC)
Yada
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 3,537

I saw a short video clip of a priest consecrating an altar by pouring what looked like oil on the altar stone. I know the Masons have a similar ritual which involves putting oil, wine, and corn (some think a direct link to ancient Baal worship) on cornerstones when dedicating new buildings. Does anyone know anything about the Catholic ritual?

Here's some info about Catholic altars:


Quote:
What is a Catholic altar?

A Catholic altar is primarily used for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, where Catholics believe a priest consecrates bread and wine into the substance of the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ.
Catholic altars are traditionally made of stone, often marble, or wood. Before Vatican II, regardless of its material, a Catholic altar had to have an altar stone containing the relics of a Catholic martyr, thus making an altar a true altar. This altar stone is usually a flat square tablet, several inches by several inches with five crosses cut into it in an "X" pattern along its top surface; this stone is inset in the front top surface of the altar where the priest would reverence it during Holy Mass with several ceremonial kisses. The altar stone is usually difficult to spot as most altars are covered with linens during ceremonies and covers when not in use. If an altar stone is removed, the altar is desecrated and must be reconsecrated. Tabernacles, the little box-like compartments once found on most altars, were usually made of the same substance and style of the altar, though, according to Canon law, they had to be anchored to the altar so as not able to be moved. In the modern Church, tabernacles are rarely installed or have been allowed to remain on the altar and altar stones are all but discontinued save in traditional or pious channels.
In a pinch, any flat surface can serve as an altar. A Greek corporal - a portable "altar stone" with relics sewn into it - can then be used by the priest. Mass can then be said on anything from a card table in a hotel to an ammunition crate in a war zone, as has been done by missionaries and military chaplains. In a case of emergency, Mass can be said without an altar stone almost anywhere, as the case of Cardinal Mindszenty who said Mass on his own chest while in prison.


The web site this was taken from is here.

As I was searching for more information about Catholic altars, I came across this site, "Global Oneness - co-creating a happy world " which had entries about consecrating a new altar/Church of Holy Mary with a "Oneness Temple." This is their mission statement:

The Global Oneness Commitment

Quote:
The Global Oneness Commitment is an eight-year project with the goal of uniting people around the globe to mutual actions in order to not only save what we have, but to transform the planet thru an increase in spiritual awareness - a new consciousness creating a joyful home for all its inhabitants and sincere respect for all forms of life. The project is synchronised with the twin Venus Transits of 2004 and 2012. It starts with the first Venus transit of June 8th 2004 and ends with the second Transit June 6th 2012. The eight-year project is initiated by the Global Oneness Foundation based in Stockholm, Sweden, in association with the Times Foundation based in Delhi, India


Notice some of the figures on their banner - including the 'virgin' Mary.

The "Oneness Commitment" site is here.
Yada attached the following image(s):
onenessbanner.gif
If you'd like to join the YY Study Group room on Paltalk - just click here. The lockword is: yadayahweh
You can download the free software here.
Hope to see everyone on Paltalk!
WARNING: Do not give out personal information (name, address, etc.) to anyone on Paltalk - ever!
Offline Yada  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, June 18, 2008 8:45:42 PM(UTC)
Yada
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 3,537

Just an interesting side note I came across today regarding the Catholic Baptismal ritual:

Quote:
The Sign of the Cross:

A stamp or imprint on something is a sign of its origin or ownership. The sign of the cross which we make at the beginning of the ceremony on the child’s forehead, claims him/her for Christ.


"Ownership?" I thought only slaves were "owned." Now, what Spirit would want to "own" us? Hmm...

Source
If you'd like to join the YY Study Group room on Paltalk - just click here. The lockword is: yadayahweh
You can download the free software here.
Hope to see everyone on Paltalk!
WARNING: Do not give out personal information (name, address, etc.) to anyone on Paltalk - ever!
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