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Offline Light1  
#1 Posted : Monday, June 9, 2008 9:18:49 AM(UTC)
Light1
Joined: 10/9/2007(UTC)
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Location: USA

I recently read an article on a rather infamous figure:

http://www.davidduke.com...cide_3966.html#more-3966

I've also read Duke's book Jewish Supremacism recently and have to say while his quotes from the Bible were totally
out of context, he has documented quite a bit of the history of Jewish influence in media and culture and government.
He also documents Israeli attacks like the Liberty and the lavon affair as well as the fact that major Jewish organizations like the
ADL and Bani Berith are behind attempts to pass 'hate crime' laws that would outlaw the Bible.

Now of course, I'm well aware that Duke is a race-centric weirdo that thinks all achivements stem from your genetics rather than the spiritual nature within you plus your own choices in life. And that there are multiple conspiracies in the shadows, not just extremist Jews running everything like the anti-Semites want us to believe, but even Yada makes clear in YY that rabbincal Judaism is satanic like the RC and Islam.

My question is, considering that most of today's Jews reject the messiah-should we support modern Israel at all? I'm not saying side with the arabs-HELL NO, but maybe Christians in America need to take a step back and reconsider what we are doing by blindly backing what is honestly an anti-Christian country (although not to the degree of the Arabs). If I had my way, America would withdraw aid and support to the Isrealis and the 'Palestinians' as well as the other Arab states (while developing our own oil reserves so that money wouldn't go to the OPEC terrorists). Would YHWH really be angry if the US stepped totally away from the MidEast and tried to get our act together at home? Am I wrong by thinking this?
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#2 Posted : Monday, June 9, 2008 10:04:30 AM(UTC)
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Israel may have rejected Yahweh for tradition, but Yahweh has not rejected them. It matters not what any other country decided for or against, America or anyone else.
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline kp  
#3 Posted : Monday, June 9, 2008 10:41:14 AM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

It's a tempting trap, Light1---the idea that we should only support Israel if Israel honors Yahweh. Seems to make logical sense, until you realize that God doesn't work like that. Abraham was painfully slow in following Yahweh's instructions, didn't keep them to the letter, and made some really horrendous gaffs along the way. And yet Yahweh told him, "I will bless those who bless you and curse him who curses you." (Genesis 12:3) He didn't say, "I will bless him who blesses you as long as you're in the center of my will." He placed no conditions on our blessing (or cursing) other than our support (or non-support) of Israel. For that matter, if we determined to support only people who are "getting it right," we would end up showing love to no one at all---including ourselves half the time---for no one in this life is without fault.

We have been informed as to precisely when Israel will begin to see the light. Unfortunately, it won't happen (on a national scale) until some time after the rapture. In the context of His miraculous deliverance of Israel during the war of Magog (which should take place around 2027-2028) and its aftermath, we are told, "I will set My glory among the nations; all the nations shall see My judgment which I have executed, and My hand which I have laid on them. So the house of Israel shall know that I am Yahweh their God from that day forward." (Ezekiel 39:21-22) Logically, that means we can't expect to see them acting like Yahweh's chosen people until after that occurs. But that doesn't change our own responsibilities toward them in the meantime.

kp
Offline shalom82  
#4 Posted : Monday, June 9, 2008 12:23:00 PM(UTC)
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In a way I am for a United States withdrawl from Israeli affairs. But not because we need to rethink the goodness of making such a move or because Israel isn't worthy of American help. American help for Israel is always a double edged sword...it always comes at a cost. We are constantly prodding Israel to make concessions and deals with a stubborn, stiffnecked people that have blood between their teeth and would eat the Israelis raw if they had their drothers. United States arms the parties in Palestine in some instances that in turn don't use those guns for the stated purposes of Policing and Defense but rather to kill Israelis. Our intelligence agencies also have interfered with Israeli operations and has given legitmacy to the likes of Yassir Arafat. We do all this knowing that the Palestinians are raising up a generation that is unsurpassed in the indoctrination of hatred and violence. Yes, the United States should leave Israel alone, but only so they won't have to be beholden to a nation that forces corruptions and national suicide (in a world with no YHWH) upon them. If Israel was to get off the American Powertit that would hasten Israel being beholden to someone a bit more powerful than the stars and stripes....YHWH. What does an American alliance really mean? How large is the corridor from the west bank to the Mediterranean? Why was the Sinai given up? It was part of the original promise from YHWH to Israel (which I understand isn't a legitimate answer to a world that generally despises Him) But even if that promise hadn't been made...all over the world...haven't the muslims lived by the mentality of might = right? Whatever Muslims take is to be theirs from there on out for the rest of time. They are still crying about "Andalusia". The Muslims have always had a problem living by the standards they expect others to live by. I don't believe for one second that if the muslim nations were to take a part of Israel that they would ever give it back. What a nice buffer the Sinai would have been for Israel...and it would have meant energy independance for Israel as well. Now in no way am I saying that individuals, communities of believers, or even governments shouldn't help and bless Israel...but let's offer real help out of love and realization of who the other party is in the equation. I think I may have mentioned this ministry before but for the interest of readers I will post it again.

http://www.hayovel.com/
YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline bitnet  
#5 Posted : Monday, June 9, 2008 7:42:04 PM(UTC)
bitnet
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120

Shalom All,

Call me silly but perhaps taking a cue fom David Duke's ideas and writings -- original or not -- should not be the right approach. Should we reproach all the Yahudi because they do not know Yahweh intimately and for having a few reprobates among them who espouse racial supremism ala Nazism? An idealogy that is probably not even considered by more than 99 per cent of the population? Would also keeping a hands-off policy be good so that we can drive them to the arms of Yahweh? That would be tantamount to approving of Hitler's final solution, wouldn't it? Also, would leaving them at the mercy of their neighbours be a viable solution to get them to return to the Creator?

I think our attitude towards modern Israel should not be hands-off for whatever reason. It took two millenia to get them back to where they should be and we should be appreciative of that despite their current attitudes. Are we, in our zest for Yahweh, so ready to fill in their shoes? We need to examine our attitude and see if we are thinking or acting according to Scripture. We do know that they are still His people and if He can suffer them for so long, we can be just as patient. Just as He suffers them, He also loves them and would protect them. That should also be our approach. However, if He chastens them and brings them to their knees, we should plead for mercy, not cheer for their punishment for we are/were exactly in the same shoes.

I recall the story of the prodigal son and I feel that I am no better than that. Now that I am finding solace and security in His arms and bosom, I wish the same for those that He called. I also remember Messiyah Yahushua's prayer for those whom Abba Yahweh has chosen and not for the world, and I am saddened that many of His own tribe may fall into that category. I know what is going to happen and it is going to be extremely horrible. I do not wish it upon anyone but it shall happen, with that small country by the Mediterranean being the focal point.

If there is one town or city where there are people deemed righteous by His blood, then it may be spared. But should He remove his people from that place, as is going to happen, nothing shall stop His wrath and I shudder at the thought. His people are slowly turning the promised land back into productive, verdant gardens and those that aim to destroy that or remove His people shall face the brunt of His anger. Leave it to Elohim Yahweh to deal with His people, whom He brought out of Egypt again.

Ohev Yisrael!
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline kp  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, June 10, 2008 11:02:40 AM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
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Not to be picky, Shalom82, but the Sinai was never given by Yahweh to Israel. Their actual borders are delineated quite precisely in Numbers 34 (I cover the subject exhaustively in FH chapter 6: Ground Zero) and the same borders are reiterated for the Millennial Israel in Ezekiel 47:13-20. Basically, starting at the Dead Sea, they get a sweeping arc to the south (not all the way to Eliat, by the way) coming out at the Wadi El Arish, south of Gaza. The Med is their western border. They get most of Lebanon (!) and a fat chunk of western Syria, and the eastern border follows the Jordan from the Sea of Galilee to the Dead Sea. Thus the Gaza Strip belongs to Israel, but the Sinai and the Golan Heights do not. That being said, I'm with you: the Sinai should have been retained as a strategic buffer, and the Golan should not under any circumstances be relinquished to Syria (who used it for years as a launching pad for artillery barrages into Galilee). The "West Bank" (I just choke on that term) belongs to Israel. Period, end of story. The real surprise is Lebanon; all but the northermost few miles are actually Israelite territory, according to Yahweh. Note that the tribal divisions in the Kingdom (Ezekiel 48) won't encompass the entire Land; they basically get squeezed into "Israel Lite"---from Dan to Beersheeba, just like the old days. And the Palestinians? They already have a country of their own. It's called Jordan. (It, by the way---Edom, Moab, and Ammon, in Biblical terms---will be severely depopulated during the Tribulation, to the point where it becomes sort of the Israeli "outback."

I wouldn't mind seeing the U.S. drop every shred of foreign aid to every nation on the face of the earth---except Israel, whom we should support with every fiber of our being. But that's only because I'm a pilgrim, not a politician.

kp
Offline shalom82  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, June 10, 2008 12:18:26 PM(UTC)
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I am for America giving exclusive help to Israel too, it's just that I think what America calls help comes at too high a price for Israel. I have been reading O Jerusalem, which is a history of the months before and after the declaration of statehood and I have to say that America has not been the friend that it claims to be to Israel. That being said individual Americans Jew and Gentile alike have shown great love for Israel by giving money, turning blind eyes, giving material, being an army of goodwill ambassadors, laboring in army outposts and farmer's fields, and even dying for the state in combat. I think that America has done some good but has never genuinely offered full fledged support that we have given to nations that we claim to be much less friendly with. I want America to help Israel, but not if that help means demanding the girding of Isreal at the middle and constantly snipping at it's borders and forcing settlers out of lands legitimately won in wars where the Israelis were greatly outnumbered in men and material. Presidents more concerned with their legacy than they are the well being of Israel compell the politicians of Israel to sell out the land and people to a government and a people who are essentially messy bloody nazis. When I say that I don't think I am making an unfair statement. Not all Palistinians are are Jew haters but I would not be at all surprised if there was a higher cross section of Palistinians that believe in the Jew hatred, the desire to expell Israel into the sea, who read mein kampf (2nd best selling book in the middle east, under the name Jihadi), who see the likes as Haj Amin Husseini and Yasir Arafat as heroes and yet still spiritual leaders. Haj Amin helped in the raising of two SS divisions of Yugoslav Muslims for Hitler's reich, and was instrumental in reinforcing Hitler's convictions in the need of a "final solution". He was also trying to convince the Nazis late in the war to at sometime in the future open extermination camps in "Palestine". That time never came. We push and compell Israel to negotiate and concede to people to indoctrinate their children with hatred and the means to kill, a people who are never willing to live by the standards they desire to impose and never look at their own faults. They are so full of jealousy and a sense of victimhood that they can with good conscience compare their own existance to what the Jews suffered under the Nazis. We have had an Arabist President, the despicable Jimmy Carter and we have presidents that have been swayed and advised by a consistantly Arabist State Department, how can Israel ever be given a fair deal in that light? I want America to help Israel, I really do, it's just that the help I see now is more like impediment.
YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline Light1  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, June 11, 2008 3:31:08 AM(UTC)
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Great comments from everyone, I think there is a ton of dirty dealing between Israel and the U.S. that hurts both countries and really doesn't honor YHWH in any real way. Since I have no real power over the issue I will let Him make the call on how this relationship goes, but I do think we should carefully evaluate what's done and not blindly ignore Jews who do wrong or advocate something that hurts the Eklisiea. Most of all, I wouldn't want to be in ANY politicians shoes when it's time for them to be judged!
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