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Offline Yada  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, June 3, 2008 1:14:48 PM(UTC)
Yada
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 3,537

The following is an exchange between "GR" and Yada:

Quote:
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 2:47 PM, "GR" wrote:

I have been trying to read Yada Yahweh and can't help but notice you give the same threats that Islam and Christianity do for people who don't do what their version of a creator asks. I know your not trying to threaten, but it's the same thing. Your saying that my Mom, who is as kind and caring of a person you will ever meet is going to have her soul destroyed because she didn't learn the true teaching's of God. All that comes to her mind if you mention God is Catholicism and Christianity, both of which thoroughly creep her out. And she's not a secular humanist either, she's just a wonderful lady trying to make it in this world and I know in my hart [and mind] she will not be destroyed after her death. Your saying that its too bad for people that were either led astray or repulsed by the religious men, well THATS THE SAME THING ALLAH SAYS, about people who don't follow his "teachings". That is not a loving creator. Why doesn't Yahweh save people like my Ma, if he loves us so much? So am I going to live with god forever because I stumbled onto your website and thus by a fluke learned the truth? That makes everyone's shot at eternal life a real crap shoot.


Yada's response:

Quote:
"G,"

I don't know your mother and even if I did, I'm in no position to judge her. It's not my job.

I don't threaten anyone. I'm a proponent of freewill and choice. Therefore, your complaint against me and Yada Yahweh is completely unfounded.

In Yada Yahweh I do my best to present Yahweh's Word as accurately and completely as possible. I don't have my own version of what the Creator asks. The book exists to expose what God actually said and how that differs from what Catholicism, and other forms of Christianity based upon it, claim. If God says the Sabbath is to be observed and the Church says that Sunday is the Lord's day, they both can't be right. If Yahweh says that Passover, Unleavened Bread, FirstFruits, Sevens, Shout for Joy, Reconciliations, and Shelters are the seven festival appointments we are to observe each year and the Church ignores all of them and says that Lent, Easter, and Christmas are the Holy Days, they both can't be right.

Based upon your letter, it appears to me that you want God to accommodate man's corruptions as opposed to God making an accommodation for corrupt man. You want Him to ignore the path and plan He laid out and to accept people on the basis of a corrupt human religious scheme. Either that, or you don't want to know what Yahweh actually said because His version of salvation conflicts with yours.

Being nice isn't a criterion for eternal life. Caring is good, but it's a byproduct, not a requirement. Church membership and religious affiliation are meaningless according to Yahweh. Faith in the wrong object isn't helpful. If you don't like that, your argument is with Him, not with me. In that light, I understand that you love your mom, but her salvation is between her and God. All you can do is what I've offered: come to know the truth, share the truth, and expose and condemn that which isn't reliable and true.

All forms of the Christian religion teach that the souls of those who don't accept their mantra spend eternity being tortured in hell. Fortunately, God disagrees, saying that those who don't know Him, and who don't rely upon His way, don't suffer forever in hell, but instead simply cease to exist at the end of life. In Yada Yahweh you have stumbled upon this merciful truth and yet, rather than see the compassion in it, the fairness of it, you see it as threatening and wrong. That's not an appropriate response.

Your view of God and the path to Him are as immaterial as your mother's. If the Scriptures are true, all that matters is what Yahweh said. If I have misrepresented Yah's Word in my translations and amplifications, that would be one thing. Point out where I've erred. But if I've been faithful to the text, then your argument isn't with me--it's with God.

When personal belief or Church doctrine conflict with Yahweh's Word, reason tells us that both cannot be right. If someone chooses to rely upon a religion which is in opposition to Yahweh's teachings for their salvation, logic dictates that they need God to be dishonest and capricious. A loving God doesn't send undeserving people to hell. A loving God isn't dishonest. A loving God provides a path to Him, reveals the nature of that path, and honors His commitment to reward those who follow it. A loving God even exposes the consequence of following man's religious path.

Your comparisons between Yada Yahweh and Allah's/Muhammad's Recital are unfounded. The message contained in Prophet of Doom and Yada Yahweh are polar opposites. Fundamentally, they differ on God's purpose, His nature, His plan, and the importance of freewill and choice.

Yahweh says that the way is broad to death and destruction and many find it. He says that the way to life is narrow and few find it. The choice is ours. Yahweh has provided the way. He revealed His truth. He proves His existence. He made Himself known. We can accept Him and His plan, ignore them, reject them, or even attempt to change/corrupt them. Each of these options is available to you and to your mother. There is no "crapshoot" with regard to one's eternal destiny. God isn't capricious, but He is pro choice. His gift is available to everyone.

Yada


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Offline bitnet  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, June 4, 2008 1:46:20 AM(UTC)
bitnet
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120

Shalom All,

GR needs to gather his/her thoughts and emotions and re-read what Yada has written. Read and think, and read and share. Don't be disheartened! Don't blame the messenger! Find other Scripture translations and verify everything. GR may find something that has been missed, just as Yada and KP have found much of what was lost.
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline kp  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, June 4, 2008 8:09:12 AM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

This is what I keep harping on. GR (presumably) reads about the three doors and decides the middle door---dissipation---is "hell lite." He loves his mom, and can't understand why a holy God wouldn't want to spend eternity with her ('cause she's a nice lady), even though she has no personal relationship with Him---and doesn't want to because she's been victimized by pagan christians. But door number two isn't "painless damnation." Rather, it's release from the world's woes, an incredibly merciful solution to an otherwise insoluble problem for the non-choosers in this life. The worst than can be said about it is that it represents a horrible loss of potential blessings, but at least those who enter door number two won't know what they've missed.

Thanks again to Yada for hammering on me until I got it. I had to unlearn a half-century of orthodox christian doctrine to see this incredibly liberating truth. Now that I see it, I can't believe I was so blind for so long.

kp
Offline Theophilus  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, June 4, 2008 10:19:13 AM(UTC)
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I think that you've each nailed it. That Scripture indicates that in order to dwell eternally in Yah's presence requires a choosen relationship and acceptance of Him. A possible exception being young children in fellowship with their parent(s) who have accepted an eternal relationship with Yah.

I've encountered a similar response with many I've shared 3 doors with espeicially among ex-Christians who've converted to Paganism. That is they still charge God with being unloving if He either doesn't welcome everyone universially into His abode (on their terms) or provide whatever afterlife paradise (preferably apart from God or adopted humans who do accept Him) that they feel entitled to. Anything less being considered unfair and loving.

I do sometimes struggle to answer the enivitable follow up question as to why an omni-potent loving God would not be in such a wish fullfillment business. Any thoughts on this?

Offline James  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, June 4, 2008 6:00:17 PM(UTC)
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I have spent much time trying to explain to my christian friends that Yah letting those who don't know him, and haven't leagued with Satan simply die. If GR's mother is a good person, but doesn't know Yah why would she want to spend an eternity with him. I have found the best way to explain it is using a logic path. I start by explaining to them that the soul is not mortal, if they accept this which is easy to show, but hard to get them to accept because they are so used to the saying immortal soul. Once they accept this then the idea that the soul must be linked to an immortal spirit to live forever period is the next logical step, then if a soul is linked to Yah's immortal spirit the soul will spend eternity with Yah, if the soul is linked to Satan's immortal spirit they will spend eternity with him, this makes logical sense. Therefore if the soul is linked to no immortal spirit then it will not live eternally logicaly. All things born only of water will die, only a soul born of spirit can live in the spiritual realm.

Not everyone agrees with me after I explain this to them, but no one has been able to refute my logic.

As to why a loving God is not in the wish fullfillment buisness, I would only answer, because what we want is not always what is best or good for us. If your loving earthly father gave you everything you wanted, fullfilled your wishes if you will, chances are you would not turn out to be a good, and capable person, most likely you would turn out to be a spoiled brat. Like our earthly father our heavenly father does what is in our best intrest, which occasionaly means we don't get what we want, and we fall on our face to learn a lesson.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline bitnet  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, June 4, 2008 8:01:12 PM(UTC)
bitnet
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120

It's amazing how people think that heaven should be a place where they can do what they want to do for all eternity. With so many different people professing so many different lifestyles, heaven will be like a huge country where people of like mind congregate in little fiefdoms under the governance of a tolerant, benevolent god. The trouble with such thinking is that those with warring minds will eventually want to take over heaven, as has happened. So it is clear that not enough thinking about the afterlife or eternal life takes place, and that peoples' minds are bound by traditions commonly known as religion.
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline Matthew  
#7 Posted : Thursday, June 5, 2008 4:27:57 AM(UTC)
Matthew
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Greats posts everyone!

I have a family member who says "I believe that if a person is a good person they will go to heaven." By defintion being a good person to them means to live according to the standards of the world, to love your family and treat everyone with care, which are not bad traits to have but they don't earn salvation. At the end of the day I am comforted by Yahuweh when He tells me that if a person trusts in their own strength for salvation they will be dissipated rather than experience eternal separation, they are essentially eternally separted but in the form of non-existence. Numbers 15:32-36 of the man who gathers sticks on the Sabbath comes to mind.

Like James I also highlight that we are not born eternal but are born mortal and are then presented with the gift of eternal life. Eternal life is a gift, that's what the Word says in Romans 6:23. Like James said again, no one can refute this, simply because no one can remember being alive before their birth, therefore we had a beginning and are not immortal/eternal by birth.

Even when presented with the 3 Doors they still argue that Door 2 is unloving. "Why is a loving God not rewarding me with heaven when I am a good person?" They don't understand why God will not bless them when they are kind-hearted and peaceful people.

But as KP and Yada stress: Man will get what he wants, a life devoid of God, in other words a non-life. If they don't want to know Him then He doesn't want to know them.
Offline James  
#8 Posted : Thursday, June 5, 2008 5:52:47 AM(UTC)
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bitnet wrote:
It's amazing how people think that heaven should be a place where they can do what they want to do for all eternity. With so many different people professing so many different lifestyles, heaven will be like a huge country where people of like mind congregate in little fiefdoms under the governance of a tolerant, benevolent god.


I never thought of that before but it makes so much sense. Thanks bitnet
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
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