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Offline Yada  
#1 Posted : Sunday, January 27, 2008 10:11:38 PM(UTC)
Yada
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 3,537

I am trying to figure out the meaning (symbolism) of:

Quote:
Leviticus 19:27 Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.


I seem to remember it being mentioned in TOM but when I ran a search, I couldn't find anything.

I think I read in Hislop's book that a common custom among sun worshipers was to cut one's hair both in a circle at the crown and around the "corners" of the head to symbolize the sun - but I am not sure if I'm correct on this. Apparently, this same practice was adopted by Christians monks/sects.

Can anyone enlighten me on Leviticus 19:27? Additionally, what does it mean to "mar" one's beard?

Thanks.
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Offline jojocc  
#2 Posted : Sunday, January 27, 2008 10:36:20 PM(UTC)
jojocc
Joined: 12/1/2007(UTC)
Posts: 97

לא תקפו פאת ראשׁכם ולא תשׁחית את פאת זקנך׃


The Hebrew says, לא (not, no, negation) תקפו (you pl. encircle, surround with intent to destroy, enclose) פאת (literally, the feminine of mouth, but in this context means, area, direction, region or corner, end, quarter, side) ראשׁכם (your pl. heads) ולא (and not, no, negation) תשׁחית (from the root ‘decay’, to ruin, destroy, cast off, corrupt, lose, spoil, waste) את פאת (‘Eth’ is a Hebrew grammatical construction used when the object of the verb is transitive, in this case it is ‘Pah’ again, literally the feminine of mouth, but in this context, area, direction, region or corner, end, quarter, side) זקנך (Beard – interestingly the same word is used as the adjective ‘old’)

So, the real translation should be,

Do not encircle/enclose with intent to destroy the region of your heads, and do not spoil/waste/cast off/corrupt the region of your beard.

This sounds to be to stop us from cutting and colouring our hair and beards (if we have them) in a pagan style, rather to leave what YHWH gave us in its natural form. The words used here have overtones of damage/corruption. I suspect that like most things, we are meant to look after and ‘husband’ our hair/beards not to corrupt/destroy them. Henna in the beard, strange patterns in our hair, weird colours including bleach will destroy and corrupt what YHWH has given us. Yet again it comes down to; this is how you stay healthy and how you stand out as children of Israel.
Offline gammafighter  
#3 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2008 9:09:42 AM(UTC)
gammafighter
Joined: 11/6/2007(UTC)
Posts: 114
Man
Location: Hilo, Hawaii

I've been meaning to look into this again (so many topics to cover!) but when I looked into it in late December, I found that the evidence was very convincing that this verse is saying not to shave and/or destroy our beards. I stopped shaving the eve of the (pagan) New Year. :D
Since the English translations end up looking pretty weird (as Jojocc showed!) i keep wanting to check into it to verify which translation is correct. I've also been thinking about beard care. It's not a big deal because i'm not really worried about what other people think, but does this verse indicate that we shouldn't even shave that area between the neck and chin? When the beard gets long enough, it won't matter, but i can't help but think that I would like it better now if that area were "cleaned up" a little as it were. Also, because english translations often say "trim" instead of "mar" it leaves me wondering: "should i trim away stray hairs and [again] 'clean up' my beard?" I've been busy studying... let's say "more urgent" issues than beard and hair maintenance lately, so I haven't had a chance to look into it.
Offline jojocc  
#4 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2008 9:28:37 AM(UTC)
jojocc
Joined: 12/1/2007(UTC)
Posts: 97

Hi Gamma,

Although I don't have a beard (thankfully) I do have hair (imagine that!) and from the Hebrew it seems that like everything else, we are to husband/keep what YHWH has given us, rather than corrupt it.

This to me means to keep it tidy and healthy, so 'trimming' like pruning is part of good husbandry.

Putting bleach/colours in your hair/beard, cutting it all off or into wacky pagan styles, shaving signs into you head etc, would count as corrupting/destoying/and literally dacaying your hair (facial or otherwise). Have you ever looked at the hair of people who spend their entire time messing about with dyes etc... it feels coarse like hay and looks tacky.

The trouble with all these things is not to get bogged down with the minutae of the torah, but rather to see the practical and spiritual significance of the instruction. In this case it is practically to be healthy and tidy, and spiritually not to corrupt/cast off/destroy what YHWH has given us - rather a strong message methinks :-)
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#5 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2008 11:58:45 PM(UTC)
Robskiwarrior
Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,470
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Location: England

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If I let it grow, Ju will leave me! lol
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline gammafighter  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, January 29, 2008 3:04:33 PM(UTC)
gammafighter
Joined: 11/6/2007(UTC)
Posts: 114
Man
Location: Hilo, Hawaii

Quote:
If I let it grow, Ju will leave me!


:O
must have a thing for smooth cheeks!
Offline shalom82  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, January 29, 2008 3:39:05 PM(UTC)
shalom82
Joined: 9/10/2007(UTC)
Posts: 735
Location: Penna

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
eh...Robski...they threaten but it's all talk...

don't beat me...don't beat me...I love all you wonderful women...haha

YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, January 29, 2008 10:16:14 PM(UTC)
Robskiwarrior
Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,470
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Location: England

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
im not saying anything - she will read this some time :P :D
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline Matthew  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, January 30, 2008 2:13:01 AM(UTC)
Matthew
Joined: 10/3/2007(UTC)
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Location: São Paulo, Brazil

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My wife gave me the same threat, "if you grow it you must leave!"
Offline bitnet  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, January 30, 2008 6:00:09 AM(UTC)
bitnet
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120

Hello All,

Nice entertaining thread this... about hair. Not to tug some more at the roots but does it really matter if you look like ZZ Top or as smooth as a balloon? Does the issue about hair styles really matter today? I think it only matters if you keep your hair to identify with a particular religion or cult or group, if it is a sign of an identity that does NOT belong to Yahweh. Perhaps that is why Paul did not instruct the gentiles to keep their hair in a particular way even when they are adopted into Yisra'el. In the past shaving one's head did signify a particular association with a particular deity, or as a symbol of mourning, or something that, in general, did not have anything to do with Yahweh. We are to look neat and presentable in whatever circumstance or society. No need for dreadlocks or turbans or looking like Chewbacca. But if the wife prefers a scrub everytime you lean in on her, then go ahead and look like Osama. And if it pleases the wife that you should be babyfaced, then you have to invest in razors... just keep it away from her legs. ;-)

Hair... also reminds me of a time when the wife and I sat at a table during a wedding and it was filled with senior college kids. I thought of having a chat to find out about their thoughts in facing the world after graduating until I heard them talk among themselves about... how nice and smooth their hair is, and what shampoo they used... and how they conditioned their hair... and these were the guys! Sigh! Needless to say we kept silent and listened to their talk about ear-rings and chains and racing on the streets.

And on another note... almost all commercial dyes are harmful not only to hair itself but they destroy the hair root follicles, as well as get into the bloodstream via the scalp and may cause serious health issues including cancer! Do not colour your hair unless you use really natural pigments! Natural colours like henna wash out sooner but it is safer. Also, please be careful as some "natural" dyes still use petroleum-based byproducts as its base ingredient! This world has sold its soul for vanity and mammon. I'd rather you have white or grey hair and a longer life than live a shorter, painful life as a baldy.
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline shalom82  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, January 30, 2008 8:56:57 AM(UTC)
shalom82
Joined: 9/10/2007(UTC)
Posts: 735
Location: Penna

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
bitnet, indeed...

Proverbs 16:3
A gray head is a crown of glory; It is found in the way of righteousness.

Proverbs 20:29
The glory of young men is their strength, And the honor of old men is their gray hair.

YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
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