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is it ok to be offensive?
 Joined: 12/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 74
Location: birmingham, al
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so i was reading the thread about the sudan case.... i read some heated comments about islam. i also heard some people stand up for the feelings of visiting muslims. i can see both points. on the one hand, how can you be all politically correct when these people are yelling "Execute her!", but at the same time... you don't want to push islamic followers away from the message of Yahushua and the love he has for all people... what do you guys think about that? |
let YHWH be true, and every man a liar |
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 Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,470  Location: England Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
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truth is truth - its how you display it that makes the difference.
Unfortunately truth is gonna hurt someone somewhere, Political correctness is a load of tosh anyway, and one of the enemy's largest weapons these days. People need to hear the truth in love, sometimes it has to be firm - You don't have to set out to be offensive... although I think you will find, if you speak the truth, you will be :) |
Signature Updated! Woo that was old... |
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 Joined: 7/31/2007(UTC)
Posts: 35
Location: Dove Canyon, CA
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To echo robski, what I like about Yahshua's message is it's out there for all to see and to make a decision on. There's no "mystery" about what you need to do to achieve salvation. With most other religions, cults and systems of belief there seem to be levels of revelation, so you need to be intitiated and then you progress through various stages.
I have been reading up on the Dead Sea Scrolls and even in the Qumran sect which claimed to a pure interpretation of the scriptures, there was this same progressive revelation as you matured in the sect.
I don't know if Islam fits this mystery profile at all. It seems like their main thrust is either convert or die. I don't know if they offer rites of passage, other than the haj.
I think if we get caught up in delaying the full truth so we don't turn someone off, we end up promoting a progressive revelation which may have us come across as promoting a mystery cult similar to all the others.
I for one am not a good example of what to do. I was never a good evangelist when I was caught up in Christianity with all the Lord stuff, and I'm no better as a public advocate for Yahweh, but I hope that will change.
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 Joined: 12/1/2007(UTC)
Posts: 97
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I hope so, otherwise I'm for it.
Its not that I mean to offend, but I tend to be quite straight about the important things in life (or The Important Thing) and funnily enough it tends to upset people's balanced lives - ooops!
Yahashua was certainly rather offensive to the Pharisees, anyone like being called a viper?
I think that if you intend to be offensive, then you have missed something, confess and ask to be changed - but to be quite honest, to most "free-thinking and rational" humans nowadays, the very idea of YHWH is offensive.
Is it something we can avoid?
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Joined: 12/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 74
Location: birmingham, al
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i don't know if we can avoid it... i've had some people to listen, but most of them don't change. they think it's just some "alternative interpretation". so if i don't offend them enough, they won't even look into it |
let YHWH be true, and every man a liar |
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 Joined: 9/26/2007(UTC)
Posts: 258
Location: ohio
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I think telling someone they are "braying asses", "sons of vipers", (satan), of the "Synagoge of satan", of the "Seat of Satan", and "vomit", would qualify as offensive. Sometimes, one is to confront and tell it like it is. |
If not us, who? If not now, when? |
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 Joined: 9/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 234
Location: Eretz Ha'Quodesh
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Perhaps it is not about being 'offensive' per se, but about the motivation behind it, does the offensive gesture or word arise out of agape (or even phileo), or does it come from a 'flesh' type of reaction.
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 Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA
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I don't think we have any choice but to be "offensive" to the world. Just by being here and breathing, we are an offense, a stumbling block, to anyone who doesn't want to be reminded of their need for salvation. As Yahshua so bluntly reminded us, "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’ He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39) We have a choice as to how prickly we are when presenting the good news, though, and I find that an invitation is more likely to be heeded (see Rev 3:20) than wagging a stern finger of rebuke in someone's face and calling them evil. Yahshua did that with the Pharisees and scribes only because they had already become "sons of vipers," that is, they were "born-again" of satan as we are to be of Yahweh.
Interesting observation about the "levels" of "enlightenment" in mystery religions, rs. The Torah specifically forbids building an altar with steps leading up to it. (see Exodus 20:26)
kp
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 Joined: 10/3/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,191 Location: São Paulo, Brazil Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 2 post(s)
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I always try watch my tongue, and try speak in an understanding that I think will get the point across to the person. Usually I know the person so when I talk I think of a clever way to get my point across, yet still keeping the peace. For example: when I was around my family a few weeks ago, my aunt picked up a sausage, as soon as I realised that she was going to give it to my little boy I gently indicated that she should not give to him. She asked me why so I said simply in a calm voice "for the Bible tells me so," as I was quoting an old verse from a children's Christian song, which I'm sure they knew because of its popularity. Then the questions come and I get given the chance to quote passages like Matthew 5:17-20 and others. But with close family I try respond to questions, instead of initiating and Bible-bashing. I find that actions speak far louder than words, one's actions usually get the questions rolling off their tongues. If they stop asking questions I usually assume they feel convicted, or think I'm crazy.
I find not eating pork such a great way to witness! Let the offending begin...
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 Joined: 11/6/2007(UTC) Posts: 114 Location: Hilo, Hawaii
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Yea, embracing the dietary laws and rejecting pagan holidays are such good chances to witness. it's almost impossible to get around it without explaining why you won't eat pig or why you don't celebrate Christmas.
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 Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120
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Offensive... that's quite subjective and depends on your environment and your motivation. Of course we don't mean to be offensive! It's just that the Others find us offensive!
"You don't think homosexuals deserve human rights? That's offensive!"
"What? You are not celebrating Christmas or Easter or Eid-Al Fitri or the Hindu Festival of Lights or Buddha's birthday? That's offensive!"
"You think Palestinians in Israel should subject themselves to the Israeli government? That's offensive!"
Sigh! I like the idea of responding to "Why don't you eat pork?" because I have not been eating oink for almost 20 years now. In my business of promoting wellness (I am a Neways distributor), I usually tell the enquirer that it is for health and strongly recommended in Scripture. Not quite offensive enough, I guess, as the usual response is that such ancient Mosaic laws do not apply today, especially to non-Jews.
Only one other person I know personally has agreed with Scripture and we do get along together just fine as is expected of Believers. Trouble is that our immediate and extended families think that our beliefs are offensive. But I stopped caring. I only want to care for them, not their beliefs which I think can be changed over time if I am gentle with them.
So, do not give offense but it is alright to be offensive passively. See, the good thing is that secular humanism promotes a place for all peoples and as long as that is true we still have a place. It is when they start behaving like Antiochus that we will have major problems. We cannot strike back like the Maccabeans, but can only flee. |
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom. |
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Joined: 12/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 74
Location: birmingham, al
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yeah... my thoughts exactly. i don't mean to offend people... it just kinda happens |
let YHWH be true, and every man a liar |
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 Joined: 12/16/2007(UTC)
Posts: 10
Location: Australia
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when talking with followers of Islam i try to point out to them comparisons between the two faiths first. Start with a positive and end with a positive when speaking with them.
Muslim's respect true Christians. followers of Yahushua.
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 Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 3,537
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Yada's other site (and free, on-line book) " Prophet of Doom" includes a section devoted to Islamic quotes entitled, "Muhammad's Own Words." You can read the quotes regarding Christians here. I have included a couple of quotes from the Quran below: Quote:Qur'an 5:51 "Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other."
Qur'an 5:17 "Verily they are disbelievers and infidels who say, ‘The Messiah, son of Mary, is God.'"
Qur'an 5:72 "They are surely infidels who blaspheme and say: ‘God is Christ, the Messiah, the son of Mary.' But the Messiah only said: ‘O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.'"
Qur'an 72:15 "But the Qasitun (disbelievers) are the firewood of hell."
Qur'an 88:1 "Has the narration reached you of the overwhelming (calamity)? Some faces (Jews and Christians) that Day, will be humiliated, downcast, scorched by the burning fire, while they are made to drink from a boiling hot spring." The complete POD "Muhammad's Own Words" begins with quotes about "Fighting." You can find it here. |
If you'd like to join the YY Study Group room on Paltalk - just click here. The lockword is: yadayahweh You can download the free software here. Hope to see everyone on Paltalk! WARNING: Do not give out personal information (name, address, etc.) to anyone on Paltalk - ever! |
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 Joined: 7/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 127
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Rachael, Not to be argumentative or offensive, but Muslims respect absolutely nothing but death and destruction. So if by "respect" you mean killing Christians and everyone else, then you are correct. There are no comparisons to be made between a relationship with Yahuwah and submission to satan. To try and point one out must require some heavy mental acrobatics. Noach Edit: Sorry, I should have clarified: "good Muslims" respect absolutey nothing but death and destruction. "bad Muslims" don't know what to respect. Noach Edited by user Saturday, December 29, 2007 2:35:36 AM(UTC)
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 Joined: 9/10/2007(UTC)
Posts: 735
Location: Penna
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
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I agree with Noach. Nearly no redeeming qualities come to mind when it comes to Islam. Let us not mix Muslims with Islam. There are loving families where the father respects his wife and loves and nurtures his children...but is that reflective of Islam? Nope...just reflective of another bad Muslim family.
Sometimes I go to youtube and I will see an anti islamic video and inevitably somebody write in the comments that Muhammad was a pedophile based on the facts about his marriage to Ayeesha. I am utterly shocked and disgusted by how many people...especially non muslims espouse historical relativism to this topic. It makes me want to throw up. I understand muslims...they have to espouse that the prophet is the perfect example or their religion goes down the tubes. But non muslims who hold such relativist doctrine!?!? How many people in this nation could stand against the defacto legalization of pedophilia when all they think that the age of consent is simply a social convention that comes in and out of fashion. Make no mistake.... the handing out of birth control to minors as young as 11 (and I have even talked to people who say 9 is acceptable...I am utterly shocked when I come into a conversation expecting that they will be as outraged as me and then learning that they are even bigger libertines than the government....vomit) is a great victory for the likes of NAMBLA and sick perverts everywhere. Once a child is given sexual rights and is deemed to have the mental facility to engage in sexual activity and have the moral clarity to make such decisions what stops them from having sex with an adult? What makes it wrong?! They are taking rulings right out of the Quran and Sharia law and they don't even know it. SICK SICK SICK WORLD.....SHILOH RETURN.....PLLLLEEEAASSSEEE!!!!
Sorry...I got a little off topic
ISLAMIC LAW
Islamic law is based on the rules of the Qur’an and the sunnah, the ‘perfect example’ of Muhammad, the Muslim prophet, recorded in the hadiths, traditions. All Muslims are ordered to imitate Muhammad’s ‘perfect example’ in thought, word and deed. They are ordered to regard Muhammad as the ideal human being and Islam as the best system for humanity forever, a system that Islamic law orders must rule the world and abolish all other religions, cultures and laws.
The definition of the word consummate: In Sahih Bukhari, vol. 7, #64, the root word used is dakhala. Hans-Wehr Arabic-English Dictionary p273: it means ‘to enter, to pierce, to penetrate, to consummate, cohabit, to have sex with a female’.
PEDOPHILIA LAWS FROM ISLAM Q&A
(www.islam-qa.com)
Question #22442: The ruling on marrying young girls
Question #12708: Is it acceptable to marry a girl who has not yet started her menses?
Answer: Marriage to a young girl before she reaches puberty is permissible according to sharee’ah, and it was narrated that there was scholarly consensus on this point.
1 – Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the ‘Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubt (about their periods), is three months; and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their ‘Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise” [al-Talaaq 65:4]
In this verse we see that Allaah states that for those who do not menstruate – because they are young and have not yet reached the age of puberty – the ‘iddah in the case of divorce is three months. This clearly indicates that it is permissible for a young girl who has not started her periods to marry.
Question #27305: Is it permissible to marry a thirteen year old girl?
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) married ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) when she was six years old, and he consummated the marriage with her when she was nine, and at that time he was over fifty.
Al-Bukhaari (3894) and Muslim (1422) narrated that ‘Aa’ishah said: The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) married me when I was six years old and consummated the marriage with me when I was nine.
It was narrated from ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) married her when she was six years old, he consummated the marriage with her when she was nine and she stayed with him for nine years.
If she has not reached the age of puberty, then her father has the sole right to arrange her marriage and does not have to ask her permission. With regard to the wedding-party of a young married girl at the time of consummating the marriage, if the husband and the guardian of the girl agree upon something that will not cause harm to the young girl, then that may be done. If they disagree, then Ahmad and Abu ‘Ubayd say that once a girl reaches the age of nine then the marriage may be consummated even without her consent, but that does not apply in the case of who is younger.There is nothing in the hadeeth of ‘Aa’ishah to set an age limit or to forbid that in the case of a girl who is able for it before the age of nine.
Question #8981: What is the punishment for a girl found guilty of adultery if she has not even reached her puberty - she is still a minor?
Answer: Al-Qurtubi said: The followers of all religions are agreed that adultery is forbidden; no religion regards it as permissible. Hence the punishment for it is one of the most severe punishments, because it is a crime against honour and lineage, which is one of the five basic principles that Islam seeks to protect, namely life, religion, lineage, reason and wealth.
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YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
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