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Offline Stewart James  
#1 Posted : Sunday, May 3, 2020 4:00:52 AM(UTC)
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Amongst the many questions I have yet to ask is this one concerning Francisco Ribera, a Jesuit and Roman Catholic priest, it is one of considerable question concernng the book of revelation!

Since the Roman Catholic Church has had a heavy hand in re writing the "Bible" I wonder to what extent his "In Sacrum Beati Ioannis Apostoli, & Evangelistiae Apocalypsin Commentarij" has had upon Revelation and if his ideas and concepts may have been inserted amongst Yahowchannon's Revelations, re scripting what we see in today's revelations passages?

There is some considerable suspicion so far as I am concerned, but I have had so little time to delve into this story which occurred at or around the protestant seperation and as a means to protect the Pope against criticism and painting him as the "Antichrist"!

I am asking because some of you may have prior knowledge of this and thus have answers which will help and I would appreciate!

Here's some info from Wikipedia!

In the late Middle Ages and in the wake of the Protestant Reformation, accusations of being the Antichrist were levied against the Pope. Amidst the controversy, Ribera in 1585 began writing a lengthy (500 page) commentary on the Book of Revelation, titled In Sacrum Beati Ioannis Apostoli, & Evangelistiae Apocalypsin Commentarii, proposing that the first chapters of the Apocalypse applied to ancient pagan Rome, and the rest referred to a yet future period of 3½ literal years, immediately prior to the second coming. During that time, the Roman Catholic Church would have fallen away from the pope into apostasy. Then, he proposed, the Antichrist, a single individual, would:

Persecute and blaspheme the saints of God
Rebuild the temple in Jerusalem
Abolish the Christian religion
Deny Jesus Christ
Destroy Rome
Be received by the Jews
Pretend to be God
Kill the two witnesses of God
Conquer the world.
To accomplish this, Ribera understood the 1260 days and 42 months and 3½ times of prophecy literally, rejecting an interpretation as 1260 years

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Ribera

Some of revelation appears consistent with the above commentary, which may indicate some copy editing present, if so, it becomes hard to trust in anything that does not match The Prophets of the Towrah!

Why is everything such a mess?
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken, or cease being honest!
Offline InHisName  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, May 6, 2020 11:48:41 AM(UTC)
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Sorry , I have nothing knowledgable to offer you about Ribera.

This happened so late that I would assume that the the bible texts were set and he was commenting on, not contributing to, the revelation text. Perhaps JB could confirm that timing.

To my point of view this is just another time waster. You can't get any clear truth from the back end of this book (NT), there is no extant text to support it. Yes, you have to work very hard to understand the front half (TPP) because the christian translation is so twisted. But the only details you can trust are those that are verified in the TPP, so why not just go there in the first place and not waste the time in the NT?

Allen
Offline Stewart James  
#3 Posted : Saturday, May 16, 2020 12:47:58 AM(UTC)
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Thank you Allen, I understand your point and it's a good one! However, since Yada has explored much of the NT, there seem to be some valid points, but who knows what and where? I understand that many have had their fingers in the "Bible" pie and therefore it is not trustworthy, yet it is hard to deny some elements that seem to be true!

It becomes a very hard job indeed to go with truth and fully understand the NT and change in stance from TPP to NT. The Ribera example is but one of many and would be typical of the RCC.

I have to ask many questions, since it's only now about three and a half years since I came to understand that Yahowah exists and in some ways, mine is a rapid catch up and hard to deal with the multitude of issues along the way. I therefore need some guidance and help along the way and is why I appreciate this forum!

You might say I have the basics and I am wanting to add to what I have already understood, so please understand I need to ask questions!

Thanks again!

Stewart
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken, or cease being honest!
Offline InHisName  
#4 Posted : Saturday, May 16, 2020 10:12:04 AM(UTC)
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Stewart,

Questioning EVERYTHING on your search for the truth is appropriate. It is why Yada is deligant about maintaining his translation style. Yes it could be written in a more concise and readable format, BUT it is important to perserve this style so that the reader is encouraged to study the translation process and not just accept it at face value.

I have always been certain of Yahowah, but uncertain of the church. I was fortunate to find Tea with Terroists soon after it was published and have followed Yada's writting ever since. I was able to evolve my understanding of Yah over decades, as Yada uncovered the truth. I remember my initial reading of Yada Yah was a truly overwhelming feeling of finding truth and home. But, I started with christianity, it was all I knew, so I believed (more or less)all of the stuff that has now been shown to be false, through Yah's own words. I was able to absorb and consider this upheaval over many years. Some revelations were obviously true and some did require my own investigation, to satisfy my own curiosity. I understand that taking on all of Yada's material at once (even several years) would be quite a challenge. But, developing your own understanding and knowledge of Yah has to come from within yourself. It can't be spoon fed to you (that is why christians only believe).

If you have come to the realization that christianity is false, then there is no more reason to consider it's text. Yes there is truth scattered within it, but Yah has declared that His Torwah is complete and enduring and all that is required. That means to me that there is no information in the NT that is important or necessary. The only value I percieve within the NT is it's absolute condemnation of itself. It's only valid use is to turn it upon itself and disprove any validity it claims to have. Yada's deep dive into the NT was not to look for truth, but to show it was invalid. (see QUESTIONING PAUL)

But my words or any others words are meaningless to you. You must fight through your own doubts and questions to be able to set them aside and KNOW for yourself where Yah's truth lies.

You don't need to apologize for asking questions. We all have. But don't expect that anyone can answer your questions. That is between you and Yah. He will help, but you must search, you must find that tidbit of information that makes you say, "OK, now I understand, now I KNOW the truth".

Allen
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Stewart James on 5/23/2020(UTC)
Offline REPeet  
#5 Posted : Saturday, May 16, 2020 12:29:18 PM(UTC)
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Hi James,

Interesting question.

It is obvious that the writings of Francisco Ribera have influenced our understanding of Revelations, but I don't believe that he has had any effect on the text of Revelations. The manuscripts we use to translate the book of Revelations date to at least five hundres years earlier than the treaties of Francisco Ribera.

He has, on the other hand influenced our understanding of the book of Revelations. The ideas you listed are the foundational concepts of the book we used as a textbook at the Bible College I attended. "The Late Great Planet Earth" by Hal Lindsey.

Decades later I find that the scholarship of Michael Rood is more biblically based than Hal Lindsey.

Now I disagree with Michael Rood on many points, but I do agree with him on several of his points in his study of Revelations and the calendar.

Specifically that the temple won't be built until after "Jesus" returns and builds it himself. I (because of Michael) believe what will be built, will be the Tabernacle of Sinai. For where this has been hidden all of this time, do research on "the Copper Scroll" found at Qumran.

That with the Tabernacle, there will be some of the furnature that was stored with it, and that the "Jews" will start offerings sacrifices in it. It is then, in this Tabernacle, that the "Antichrist" sets his throne and decrees his worship.
Offline InHisName  
#6 Posted : Monday, May 18, 2020 8:44:14 AM(UTC)
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Hi Repeet,

As a group Yada Yah has not spent much time (recently) on the details of the end time. I don't think I have even wondered about what and when for more than a decade. This is not to say end time details have not popped up! They have been revealing and again have contradicted christian belief. Read the Observations and Coming Home books to catch up with this. Most of the effort here has been/is to promote the Covenant, because the Covenant is the vehicle that determins if you survive the end times or not.

So, your conjecture (or Rood's) that the "antichrist" will turn up after God (replacing your errant term Jesus)and takeover His temple (in God's presence)is abhorent and frankly rediculous. Once God returns He will put an end to everything that is against Him, there will be NO opposition, it will be THE END. It is just not in His character to abide un-righteousness in His presence. I can't percieve how that scenario could happen.

BTW, antichrist should actually be anti-Towrah, so this would include christians, muslims, and virtually everyone else in the world except Covenant members.

Repeet, I see you have been around for awhile. Are you Covenant, christian or searching?

Allen
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matt on 5/19/2020(UTC)
Offline REPeet  
#7 Posted : Monday, May 18, 2020 2:48:27 PM(UTC)
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Hi Allen, I no longer claim to be a Christian after rejecting anything that is "Pauline". I instead chase after the Father with my whole heart. Studying and changing my life in order to conform to the Father's Family Oriented Covenant of Love. The foundation of this endeavor is based on "Yada's" work.

I do use the name "Jesus" in quotation marks for two reasons. First, everyone who reads this, no matter what level they are at, understands who we are talking about. Second, at our level, I believe the name used throughout the Hebrew language Gospels is Yeshu. I therefore would refer to him like that, or as Yeshua. I understand that you would vehemently disagree with me and insist upon using the name Yahowsha. I would also disagree with the "vav" vs "waw" argument. (Yes, I am influenced by Nehemia).

I agree that eschatology is a wasteland of opinions. And you're right. It doesn't matter what is happening, as long as we are faithful to the Father, love Him, and keep His Covenant commandments.

Now. I see that as I was purposely vague, that you have filled in a lot of detail that I would never believe in. So please let me clarify a few points.

I believe that based on the discoveries of the Copper Scroll Project, that the Tabernacle in the Wilderness was disassembled when it was replaced by the first Temple.

I have no trouble believing that when it became clear that Jerusalem would fall, that the leaders "hid" the unassembled Tabernacle.

I believe that with the Copper Scroll Project, that the leaders of Israel are planning not to build a Temple right now, but instead re-assemble the Tablernacle in order to re-establish their worship. That this Tabernacle can be assembled anywhere on Mt. Moriah.

I believe that the Ark will not be brought out and put into the Tabernacle. That it is already in its permanent home.

I believe that this worship, is what will be the stage for the anti-christ to desolate the true Tabernacle of the Wilderness and its associated "furniture".

God has not returned at anytime during these events. But prophecies are being fulfilled.

Realizing of course, as more data is ingested, my views will change.
Offline matt  
#8 Posted : Monday, May 18, 2020 6:45:26 PM(UTC)
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What Hebrew language "gospels" are you referring to REPeet?
Offline REPeet  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, May 19, 2020 8:21:56 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: matt Go to Quoted Post
What Hebrew language "gospels" are you referring to REPeet?

There are 28 Hebrew language witnesses to the Gospel of Matthew. The easiest one to get is included in a commerically available book:

Hebrew Gospel of Matthew
by George Howard
Mercer University Press 1995

Interestingly he prints out the Hewbrew text in modern Hewbrew script without vowels on the "left page" and then translates it into English on the "right page". Hebrew readers have found the translations are close, but there are times he feels compelled to deviate. Discussions of this can be found on Youtube videos of Nehemiah Gordon. Usually (but not always) with Michael Rood.

Nehamiah on the Lord's Prayer
Offline matt  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, May 19, 2020 6:57:40 PM(UTC)
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Thanks REPeet. I am familiar with those and expected that is what you were referring to, but was hopeful that there had been some new discovery that I was unaware of.
Offline Stewart James  
#11 Posted : Saturday, May 23, 2020 2:22:34 AM(UTC)
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Thank you Allen for your complete and comprehensive reply on 16th May! I understand all you have had to say and certainly in my studies I do consider primarily what the Torah/Towrah has to say. I am influenced less and less by Christians and other religious ideas and ideals and just know that a willingness to study will led me away from error!

I first began my Journey in November 2016 when I kept getting directed to the 10 lost tribes of Israel (Yisra'el), I ignored the almost constant references that came up, until I thought, I had better check this out. About June time 2017 I first came across Yada Yah and saw a link that I clicked on to go to "ITG" in 2017 and that is where I started!

I feel that I am way behind in the knowledge stakes that many of you have in terms of years of experience, I have never been a Christian, previously never even paid attention to what God has to say because in fact Christianity put me off when I found it was so stupid, I could not consider anything they had to say as being real, they seemed like fools - and they are, but now proven with a diffent perspective after one day when I was asked "are you saved?" on You Tube! I replied "I cannot confirm that!" It was during this time I came across a link on you tube to Yada Yah! In fact I can recall after reading parts of ITG, I made a decision on 4th July 2017, to have a real go at understanding and this is what I call my very own Independance day! I have just begun, I have many questions, but should I then ask, who will be correct? Perhaps only Yahowah Himself!

So you see, my life is not encumbered by things I have to unlearn, but when Christians get involved, it get's tiresome and awkward, I don't have enough knowledge of their corrupt ways, but have found plenty to be going on with!

Every relationship is founded upon the correct understanding of the Hebrew Language, this is one of the pillars upon which a foundation can be built that leads to truth, however this aspect seems to vary also depending upon what you can determine to be correct and here are differences in opinion across those who consider the Hebrew. This is where it becomes hard to get to a clear understanding is a few cases, though many are as clear and sharp as can be! I have made a start to look for word meanings and the differences and double edged meanings along with context and roots of words!

Thank you again Allen for your helpful comments! I hope you get a small picture of where I am coming from, not Chrsitianity, never in a billion years!
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken, or cease being honest!
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