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Offline doncarp14  
#1 Posted : Friday, November 1, 2019 8:01:12 AM(UTC)
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In the Paul section, you state that Yahowsha was not physically resurrected because his body was incinerated. Forgetting whether or not this claim does violence to Pauls writings, it does violence to the gospels (which you say are our reliable resources). The gospels have his body being placed in a tomb, and even has women going to said tomb to annoint the body. Why would they be going to visit a body that had been incinerated? The gospels have the rock being rolled away and an empty tomb. It would be very helpful to address such obvious concerns as you make these claims; it makes it hard to continue and focus on your claims with these things not immediately addressed...
Offline James  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, November 5, 2019 10:08:22 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: doncarp14 Go to Quoted Post
In the Paul section, you state that Yahowsha was not physically resurrected because his body was incinerated. Forgetting whether or not this claim does violence to Pauls writings, it does violence to the gospels (which you say are our reliable resources). The gospels have his body being placed in a tomb, and even has women going to said tomb to annoint the body. Why would they be going to visit a body that had been incinerated? The gospels have the rock being rolled away and an empty tomb. It would be very helpful to address such obvious concerns as you make these claims; it makes it hard to continue and focus on your claims with these things not immediately addressed...


I am not the author of QP, he actually does not frequent the forum, if you wish to talk with him he can be reached at email@yadayah.com

Personally, I find the "gospels" to range from a somewhat useful history to outright useless. However, even without that nothing in them indicates that His body was resurrected. Let us examine what you point out. The body was placed in the tomb, but the fact that the 2 women were going to anoint it just tells us that they assumed it would be there, this does not mean it was. You say the rock was rolled away to revel an empty tomb, exactly because the body was incinerated.

Yahowsha’s sole purpose was to fulfill the role of the Passover lamb, and just Yahowah instructed nothing of the lamb was to remain; it was to be burned in the fire. Yahowsha’s body was incinerated and not left in accord with Passover.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline doncarp14  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, November 5, 2019 3:27:14 PM(UTC)
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i may have misunderstood regarding incineration; I was assuming he meant incinerated by those attending as opposed to being placed in a tomb. I now assume you mean incinerated in the tomb by the power of god. Still, it leaves a bit of a vague picture of what the body that was seen by others was---he still had the holes in his hand and side. As for the gospels mentioning resurrection, perhaps you could read John 11:25 where Yahowsha uses the actual word resurrection (I am the resurrection-pretty direct), and also all the passages that refer to him being risen (implying that body being risen, no sense of a new body) such as Matt 28:5-6, Matt 20:18-19, John 20:8-9. Also, and I realize it is not one of the gospels, but I do not think the author has a problem with Peter, Peter use "resureection" in 1 Peter 1 and 1 Peter 3. If you find the gospels "useless" in some cases, Im not sure whta your basis for belief, interest, or commentary would be at all...
Offline doncarp14  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, November 5, 2019 3:33:03 PM(UTC)
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Oh...and I forgot....No, his "sole purpose" was not to just be the passover lamb. In his own words--"I am the resurrection and the life, the one who believes in me will live..." He came to also be the firstfruits of the dead. A simply dead, incinerated lamb is not our hope for eternal life; a resurrected lamb is...
Offline chrud  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, November 12, 2019 10:28:02 AM(UTC)
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It looks like this needs to be stated clearly: what are called the gospels are a mix of a bunch of lies with some nuggets of half truths. They are unreliable. Reading them does more harm than good.

You are asking a question that says "Given all the lies that I've learned, how do they fit into the truth that you are trying to give me?" This is absolutely the wrong direction to take.

Change your thinking. Instead, remove everything you think you know based on the gospels, and then figure out what questions you should ask.
Offline Stewart James  
#6 Posted : Saturday, November 16, 2019 12:00:19 AM(UTC)
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First to undertstand Testimony is to understand what is true and what is false, so if you have a new testimony which supplant's, annuls, or does away with the first or original testimony, then when you accept that new testimony as beieng true, reliable and having the nature and veracity of truth, you then allow yourself to be persuaded to another argument, doing away with the first!

I a court of law as I understand it (I am no expert) this would destroy the first or original testimony and persuade the jury (You) to conclude that the first testimony was a fake, errant and perhaps a complete lie!

In that case you would need to compare both side by side and understand from whence they came in order that you can determine which is reliable and true and where contradictions come into play. Which one came from a diivine source and which is simply the words of men, albeit in some cases and only few eye witness account that have een tampered with?

If the orignal testament has verifiable poof of future history being spoken of in times past and you can see it all being revealed before your eyes in the current day, which would you conclude to be truthful? If the new testament were at least 50% the words of one man, not God and not inspired by God, but of one man, which would you trust? If the eye witness accounts, of which there are only 2, not the inspired word of God were corrupted, changed, added to and taken from with thousands of copies all saying slightly different things encompassed in a new collective tesimony of some errant copyist men, then which would you determine to be truthful and correct?

It is very clear that the new testimony, having ben corrupted is at the very heart and root of the new religon, with a new book and new name for their messiah (read Ma'aseyah! It is clar the original testimony is far closer to the truth when you can find clear and correct traslation attemts rather than accepting errant scribes writings!
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken, or cease being honest!
Offline Bubsy  
#7 Posted : Monday, November 18, 2019 3:53:33 PM(UTC)
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Regarding the incineration of Yahowsha's body, the Towrah instruction for Passover which said that all of the lamb's flesh not eaten shall be burned in fire before morning was also prophetic - after Yahowsha's body was sealed up in the tomb on the definitive fulfillment of Passover (on the 6th day of the week - a "Friday"), sometime during the night, the body was incinerated in some great burst of energy, likely performed by Yahowah or one of His messengers. The next day, Unyeasted Bread (on a natural Sabbath), the soul paid the penalty of sin in She'owl (as described in Psalm 88). And the day after that, Firstfruits / First-born Children (on the 1st day of the week - "Sunday"), the soul was reunited with Yahowah's spirit and born spiritually, in an energy-based "body". "Behold, he is risen." Those who saw him did not recognize him by his appearance. His subsequent traveling of 60 stadia in an instant, and appearance in a closed-up room with his disciples are consistent with being energy-based, and not resurrected in the same mortal body. Another thing to consider: if man has been able to use E=mc^2 to make nuclear power and nuclear bombs (energy out of matter), isn't it reasonable to conclude that Yahowah knows how to use the equation in the other direction, taking energy and diminishing it to visible, tangible matter?
Ha Shem? I'm kind of fond of Ha Shemp, Ha Larry, and Ha Moe myself. And the earlier shorts with Ha Curly.
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Offline Glfnaz  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, November 19, 2019 11:52:50 AM(UTC)
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His soul was resurrected and reunited with Yahowah's Spirit in Heaven. Now I ask, what good would a 3 dimensional 'body' be in a 6th or 7th dimensional spirit realm? It would be a hinderance, and surely a liability there. Bodies are usefull in a 3 dimensional realm, but useless in heaven.
Offline doncarp14  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, November 19, 2019 12:55:29 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Stewart James Go to Quoted Post
First to undertstand Testimony is to understand what is true and what is false, so if you have a new testimony which supplant's, annuls, or does away with the first or original testimony, then when you accept that new testimony as beieng true, reliable and having the nature and veracity of truth, you then allow yourself to be persuaded to another argument, doing away with the first!

I a court of law as I understand it (I am no expert) this would destroy the first or original testimony and persuade the jury (You) to conclude that the first testimony was a fake, errant and perhaps a complete lie!

In that case you would need to compare both side by side and understand from whence they came in order that you can determine which is reliable and true and where contradictions come into play. Which one came from a diivine source and which is simply the words of men, albeit in some cases and only few eye witness account that have een tampered with?

If the orignal testament has verifiable poof of future history being spoken of in times past and you can see it all being revealed before your eyes in the current day, which would you conclude to be truthful? If the new testament were at least 50% the words of one man, not God and not inspired by God, but of one man, which would you trust? If the eye witness accounts, of which there are only 2, not the inspired word of God were corrupted, changed, added to and taken from with thousands of copies all saying slightly different things encompassed in a new collective tesimony of some errant copyist men, then which would you determine to be truthful and correct?

It is very clear that the new testimony, having ben corrupted is at the very heart and root of the new religon, with a new book and new name for their messiah (read Ma'aseyah! It is clar the original testimony is far closer to the truth when you can find clear and correct traslation attemts rather than accepting errant scribes writings!


The "new testament" does not annul the old; Yashua made that quite clear; he fulfilled the promises of it. All of the old testament prophecies speak of him, he made that quite clear. If Paul's teachings contradict this idea, that is one thing; some of you seem out of touch with the narrator of this site you claim to support. He doubts paul, but supports the gospels of john and matthew. As far as comparing the two, as I said, the old clearly speaks of christ; and as far as reliable prophecy that has unfolded before our eyes nothing is more convincing than the Revelation, which is a companion book to Daniel and an opening of the book sealed there. All of the visions of Revelation can be understood in the context of the old testament feasts. Where do I ever say to "do away" with the first? dont confuse me with yourselves who seem to want to do away with the second. Both are indispensable to me. Without the reliability of the "new", the old testament has not seen its fulfillment and we are all still waiting for the messiah. You go on and on using words like "reliable" and "trust" etc..., while still espousing belief in Yashua? The only record we have of his coming is the new testament, so either you believe it or you dont, its your only basis for believeing in Yashua and the reality of his coming in the first century AD..
Offline InHisName  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, November 20, 2019 10:09:59 PM(UTC)
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The "new testament" does not annul the old; Paul does: The purpose of the Towrah (1st 5 books) is to introduce Yahowah, to prove the History he lays out, to provide a framework and teaching for humans to understand and trust Him and to mold all of this into a family. The heart of this is the story of Abraham, here Yah laid out His Family Oriented Covenant. Abraham, Sarah and Isaac became it’s symbolic first members. Paul lays out a different story, Paul says there are two covenants(there was only one), that the covenant of Mt Sinai was with Hagar(she was specifically excluded) and was of bondage [to the towrah]. Paul lies and lays it out all backwards, that salvation is through belief in the grace of christ to save us from the LAW. (Galations 3 and 4) Yah say that salvation is a one of many benefits of the Covenant, which is the heart of the TOWRAH. Only one of them is correct, I choose Yahowah.

Yashua made that quite clear; he fulfilled the promises of it. All of the old testament prophecies speak of him, he made that quite clear. If Paul's teachings contradict this idea, that is one thing; some of you seem out of touch with the narrator of this site you claim to support. He doubts paul, but supports the gospels of john and matthew. As far as comparing the two, as I said, the old clearly speaks of christ; and as far as reliable prophecy that has unfolded before our eyes nothing is more convincing than the Revelation, which is a companion book to Daniel and an opening of the book sealed there.
All of the visions of Revelation can be understood in the context of the old testament feasts. Where do I ever say to "do away" with the first? dont confuse me with yourselves who seem to want to do away with the second. Both are indispensable to me. Without the reliability of the "new", the old testament has not seen its fulfillment and we are all still waiting for the messiah. You go on and on using words like "reliable" and "trust" etc..., while still espousing belief in Yashua? The only record we have of his coming is the new testament, so either you believe it or you dont, its your only basis for believeing in Yashua and the reality of his coming in the first century AD.. I believe this is all addressed in my reply in the THE LAW thread
Offline InHisName  
#11 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2019 12:09:32 PM(UTC)
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In Galations 4-5, Paul lies about the details of Yah's family oriented Covenant made with Abraham and twists it to mean it can not save us, so we must believe in a second covenant that provides righteousness by faith. That "christ has made us free of the yoke of bondage" (the law (towrah))

That is an annulment of the Towrah. Yah called the Towrah complete, all we need!


Yah promised Abraham that He would provide the Passover Lamb and He either has or will. Whether 'Jesus' was Yahowsha (Yahowah is salvation)or he is still to come is irrelevant. Yah will provide.

Allen
Offline mbuel  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, December 23, 2020 9:19:57 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: doncarp14 Go to Quoted Post
Oh...and I forgot....No, his "sole purpose" was not to just be the passover lamb. In his own words--"I am the resurrection and the life, the one who believes in me will live..." He came to also be the firstfruits of the dead. A simply dead, incinerated lamb is not our hope for eternal life; a resurrected lamb is...


Did you get an answer to this?

I'm curious if he has a second witness that his body was burned.

I do agree with the others in this forum, it's what I've come to believe - the "New Testament" is the flying scroll described in Zechariah 5.
Offline REPeet  
#13 Posted : Sunday, January 24, 2021 1:16:52 PM(UTC)
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This is the way that I'm able to understand this testamony so far.

That Jesus not as a sin offering, like bulls, goats, and doves are, but is a death substitute, like the passover lamb was, is placed in the tomb on Wednesday night (sorry Yada).

During that night, by some supernatural event, the remants of that beaten to a pulp body was incinerated.

That during the next three days and nights, that Yeshua, a diminished and limited part of Yahowah experiences the appropiate punshment that satisfies the requirements of justice for the sins that Yahowah tells us that he chooses to forget/forgive.

On the third day, that Yeshua is ressurected in a "new" physical "heavenly" body. A body of the firstfruits of the ressurection.

He then greets Mary at the tomb, but tells her not to touch him, because he is ritually clean and has to bring the firstfruits of the resurrection to the heavenly place and present them to our Father.

He, in his new physical body capable of navagating throughout the mulitverse, offers the firstfruits of the ressurection to the father.

He then transports himself to the various visitations where he bears witness of his ressurection to his disciples. The inclusion of nail holes and pierced side is incorporated in this new body to bear testimony of the price paid.

I also believe that it is possible that the Shroud of Turin could be the physical evidence of the supernatural incineration of Yeshua's human body.

Edited by user Monday, January 25, 2021 9:41:09 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Mowriyah7  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, January 26, 2021 7:40:56 PM(UTC)
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Hello REPeet and some others in this thread,

This is the way that I'm able to understand this testamony so far.
Curious – the testimony of others in the forum, Yah’s Towrah or the Christian new testament?

That Jesus not as a sin offering, like bulls, goats, and doves are, but is a death substitute, like the passover lamb was, is placed in the tomb on Wednesday night (sorry Yada).
I read your words about using “Jesus” and “Yeshua”. As Yahowsha’s name is spelled Yad-hey-wa-shin-ayin and the wa is before the shin, it is not possible that the shin would be pronounced before the wa. Therefore “Yeshua” is incorrect both in spelling and pronunciation. Jesus has no significant meaning so is a worthless name. As a substitution for Yahowsha, it is in opposition to Yahowah and therefore deadly.
Yahowsha (Yahowah saves or Yahowah saving us) as the Pesach lamb paid the price (physical death) and the consequence (separation from Yahowah in Sheowl) of missing Yah’s way while causing others to miss Yah’s way. Note that this payment of price and consequences by Yahowah was accomplished only for those who choose to opt-in to His Covenant according to Its terms and conditions.
It makes sense that the fulfillment of Pesach would occur on a shabat as Yah’s Pesach instructions indicate such.
I’m thinking perhaps the “sin offerings” were included to illustrate that there are consequences for our actions but I must say I have not attempted to delve deeply into the details of those instructions as of yet.

During that night, by some supernatural event, the remants of that beaten to a pulp body was incinerated.
That during the next three days and nights, that Yeshua, a diminished and limited part of Yahowah experiences the appropiate punshment that satisfies the requirements of justice for the sins that Yahowah tells us that he chooses to forget/forgive.

Just like most “magic” that is simply advanced technology, I would posit that it was not “super” natural, but simply natural beyond our current understanding. And yes – the body that was likened to a crimson grub was incinerated just like the uneaten bits of lamb in the Pesach instructions. Then came Matsah (when Yahowsha’s soul was in Sheowl) which illustrates the consequence of leading others astray and the analogy of yeast to religion, politics and oppressive monetary schemes.

On the third day, that Yeshua is ressurected in a "new" physical "heavenly" body. A body of the firstfruits of the ressurection.
Yahowsha was never resurrected. His soul didn’t die but there was no body left to resurrect. If he did in fact appear to anyone after the Bikkuwrym harvest, it would have been as visible diminished energy according to E=MC2.

He then greets Mary at the tomb, but tells her not to touch him, because he is ritually clean and has to bring the firstfruits of the resurrection to the heavenly place and present them to our Father.
He, in his new physical body capable of navagating throughout the mulitverse, offers the firstfruits of the ressurection to the father.

I seriously doubt that (if this did in fact happen) the no touching instruction would have had much to do with being “ritually clean”. My guess would be that it would have more to do with being diminished energy and attempting to touch him in that state might have been somewhat dangerous. I also think that the energy that was Yahowsha’s soul was absorbed (for lack of a better word) back into Yahowah.
Just ruminating now…. I think Yahowsha’s soul resulted from Yahowah’s imprint or a particular pre-organization of the prospective energy (soul) of Miriam and Yoseph’s child within the womb to reflect or have His personality. Hence the ability to be separated from Yah yet still be Yah providing the Lamb.

He then transports himself to the various visitations where he bears witness of his ressurection to his disciples. The inclusion of nail holes and pierced side is incorporated in this new body to bear testimony of the price paid.
IF this happened, it would not be difficult as an energy based individual to adjust one’s physical manifestation to be holey (LOL Wink ) for the benefit of others’ eyeballs.

I also believe that it is possible that the Shroud of Turin could be the physical evidence of the supernatural incineration of Yeshua's human body.
Possible, but with spelling correction of Yahowsha’s name. Wink

All of that said, other than the fun mental exercise, I do not think that focusing on Yahowsha is particularly productive. I much prefer to focus on Dowd in that respect as he’s the one coming back as Yah’s Son, the Lion of Yahuwdah and King of Israel. All those wonderful promises Yah made to Dowd got misappropriated to Yahowsha under a different name by Paul/Shauwl and clerics of Christianity. He is our example to follow into eternal life – not Yahowsha (as doncarp14 referenced). Oh and by the way, do a re-read of the 22nd and 23rd Mizmowr. Dowd saw what Yahowsha went through. 'Tis proof enough other than all the noise and babel used to whitewash what actually ocurred in 33 CE. (I don't think there'd be nearly as much noise if nothing happened for them to try to cover up, obscure and steal.)

There seems to be a lot of focus on the Christian New Testament in this thread. And it’s recent! I really thought the erroneous nature of that collection of writings was already laid bare for all to see. It is extraordinarily unreliable. And we are still uncovering more of the skeletons and mummies in its closet (so to speak). Have y’all not read through the Yada Yahowah series of books that are the reason this forum exists? Do y’all not listen in to the weekly shabat show that airs every Friday evening? We’ve learned SO MUCH just last few years!

There are so many beautiful resources made available by other members of Yah’s Covenant Family and most are listed in various places within this forum. But please ask if you don’t know where they are and one or more of us will be delighted to direct you. You might want to get the latest version of Questioning Paul as soon as it comes out. (I think a volume or two are available now.)

Yahowah’s Towrah is all you need.
Yahowah’s Towrah is complete and entirely perfect, returning, restoring and transforming the soul. Yahowah’s testimony is trustworthy and reliable, making understanding and obtaining wisdom simple for the open-minded.
I don’t think anyone will get very far with one foot on Yah’s exacting path and one foot in the broad and open way. Just sayin'.

Shalowm!
~Mowriyah
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Offline REPeet  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, February 16, 2021 1:33:36 AM(UTC)
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Hi Mowriyah7,

Thanks for the reply, I'm curious though. When you say:

Quote:
"Yahowsha was never resurrected. His soul didn’t die but there was no body left to resurrect. If he did in fact appear to anyone after the Bikkuwrym harvest, it would have been as visible diminished energy according to E=MC2."


Do you mean like a hologram without the ability to manipulate matter, or like a Star Trek hologram with a force field componant that can manpulate matter?

I personally have no problem with a new physical "super capable" "vehicle" for the "soul" and "spirit" of Jesus appearing within the time stream. Do you not apply 1 John 4:2 to the post ressurection body as well as the pre-ressurection body?

Quote:
"2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God," 1 John 4:2 NIV
Offline Mowriyah7  
#16 Posted : Tuesday, February 16, 2021 5:01:28 PM(UTC)
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Hello REPeet,

Quote:
Do you mean like a hologram without the ability to manipulate matter, or like a Star Trek hologram with a force field componant that can manpulate matter?

I think we can surmise that Yahowsha had the ability to manipulate matter as those who walk Yah's narrow Path will. How else would we be able to eat and drink when we return to this planet for the Mowed Miqra'ey? I think Yah's immortal children will be able to materialize at will but it will only be a tiny tiny tiny fraction of the energy of that individual. The reality of being empowered on such a great multidimensional level is beyond to our finite little mammalian brains (even with a neshamah). As fun as it is to daydream about, I don't know that it's particularly productive.

Yah's children's souls will be empowered by being enveloped in Yah's Ruach Quodesh - His Set-Apart Spirit. We don't have a "spirit" of our own. Spirit (ruach) and soul (nepesh) are not interchangeable terms. Spirits are immortal - souls not associated with a spirit are mortal and cease to exist at the end of their mortal lives. If someone is associated with a different spirit than Yah's, that individual will end up in She'owl and probably wish they had ceased to exist instead.

Yahowah's written instructions (Towrah) have more than enough information for the purpose of getting to know Him and His Way. I would never rely upon anything in the christian "new testament". It's not trustworthy and is confusing as hell. The first condition of Yah's Covenant is to walk away from Babylon. The root of babylon is bbl/babel/confusion and has the same root as "bible". It is a rich and nuanced term on many levels. Just looking at the paleo-hebrew letters alone tells us so much and calls out any attempt to use Yah's instructions as a foundation while claiming the authority to change or alter them and leading others astray as a result (two houses and a shepherd's staff). Your continued reference to "Jesus Christ" is concerning and gravely inappropriate as I previously explained.

Quote:
"2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God," 1 John 4:2 NIV

The Adversary/Satan/Halal ben Shakar knows that Yahowsha was the Passover Lamb and so do all of his/her/its cronies/demons/fallen spirits. If any spirit "acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh", then that spirit would absolutely not be from Yahowah. That passage just continues to illustrate the confusing and errant nature of the second house (beyth) in the word "bible". That second house in the context of christianity is their "new testament". In the context of islam - it is their koran. In the context of judaism - it is their talmud.

I hope this helps,
~Mow
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Offline REPeet  
#17 Posted : Saturday, February 20, 2021 3:58:21 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: doncarp14 Go to Quoted Post
In the Paul section, you state that Yahowsha was not physically resurrected because his body was incinerated. Forgetting whether or not this claim does violence to Pauls writings, it does violence to the gospels (which you say are our reliable resources). The gospels have his body being placed in a tomb, and even has women going to said tomb to annoint the body. Why would they be going to visit a body that had been incinerated? The gospels have the rock being rolled away and an empty tomb. It would be very helpful to address such obvious concerns as you make these claims; it makes it hard to continue and focus on your claims with these things not immediately addressed...

doncarp14,

To answer your question directly, the women had no clue that the body of Yahowsha was going to be incinerated. They didn't understand until afterwards that he was fulfilling the promise of the Passover Lamb.

As you can see from the previous conversations, that we "believe" that Yahowsha returned in some manner of body. The level of material involvement is the only disagreement.

I use the word "believe" in quotes because of the following. If you dismiss the "New Testament" as being totally unreliable, then the eye wintness testamony of seeing Yahowsha after his ressurection is obviously fantasy and hogwash.

If on the other hand, you believe like me, that the "New Testament" contains the flawed human testimony of eyewitnesses, then we have the same level of evidence that we have for any other historical event. Which is always open to refinement as more information becomes available.

Offline Mowriyah7  
#18 Posted : Saturday, June 12, 2021 2:39:42 PM(UTC)
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My apologies for the delay.

REPeet, you say:

Quote:
As you can see from the previous conversations, that we "believe" that Yahowsha returned in some manner of body. The level of material involvement is the only disagreement.


I said IF it occurred. Do not include me in your "we". If it isn't mentioned in (or deducible from the study of) Yahowah's Towrah then it isn't germane. And that is not the only disagreement.

Quote:
I use the word "believe" in quotes because of the following. If you dismiss the "New Testament" as being totally unreliable, then the eye wintness testamony of seeing Yahowsha after his ressurection is obviously fantasy and hogwash
.

On close examination, most of it is a Dionysian fantasy and worse than hogwash. Most people here do not "believe" as you do. Why believe when you can know? There may have been some legitimate eyewitness writing at some point but that is long gone and quite frankly, not needed for the purpose of understanding.

Quote:
If on the other hand, you believe like me, that the "New Testament" contains the flawed human testimony of eyewitnesses, then we have the same level of evidence that we have for any other historical event. Which is always open to refinement as more information becomes available.


This is entirely untrue. Evidence is observable and verifiable. Historical and physical evidence as well as its own consistency support the veracity of Yahowah's Towrah while at the same time condemning man's attempt to nullify it with a new testament. It is not some nebulous changing thing subject to fashionable interpretation and opinion (aka refinement) like the tomes of the religious and the whitewashing intoxicating cover-up that is Christianity. Our understanding of Yahowah's Towrah is being deepened and refined as we continue to learn but His Towrah is not and does not need to be refined in any way. It is beautifully real, life-giving and completely sufficient for its purpose.

All the information we need to get to know Yahowah and His Path to Life is in His Towrah, Naby, Mizmowr and Mashal. Study it and get your face out of this filth.
Perhaps it was my mistake to entertain the questions. I was simply hoping to share in a conversational sense some of what we've learned about light, energy and matter because it's beautiful and profound.

But this constant regurgitation of the toxic and twisted sick vomit that is the Christian new testament is an excercise in distraction and death. It was written by men with an agenda of self-aggrandizing manipulation, to further the careers and fill the pocketbooks of personality disordered individuals and to besmirch Yahowah and His Family. It is entirely oppositional to Yahowah and Yahowdym. The Christian new testament IS TOTALLY UNRELIABLE and the examination of it is useful only to expose and condemn the religion, its many logical fallacies and the plagiarism of pagan lore that it contains. Examining it closely in comparison to Yahowah's Towrah, known history and other writings (such as the Sibylline Oracles and Homer's Odyssey) makes that abundantly clear. Christianity is one of the worst tragedies of humankind.

It is apparent that you still do not understand what Dowd wrote:
Yahowah’s Towrah, His Teaching and Guidance, is complete and perfect, restoring and transforming the soul. Yahowah’s testimony is trustworthy and reliable, making understanding simple for the open-minded. (Mizmowr 19:7)
Yahowah’s directions are correct, promoting a right attitude while facilitating good judgment. Yahowah’s terms and conditions, the codicils of His Covenant, are purifying, illuminating the proper perspective. (Mizmowr 19:8)

Yahowah's Annointed, King Dowd said this and so much more. It would serve you well to focus on Dowd (and what he focuses on) rather than some twisted fantasy that is used to convolute and hide the role of the Passover Lamb while attempting to steal all of the promises Yahowah made to His first born and favorite Son and to His Family.

REPeet, I saw your website. Don't push your religion in this forum.
Leading others astray will land your soul in She'owl.
Yahowah's Covenant Family isn't buying what you're selling.


to doncarp14 and any others reading,
feed your soul some good food here:
http://yadayahowah.davidsgod.com/

Observe Yahowah's Towrah and His Terms and Conditions for yourself.

thanks 1 user thanked Mowriyah7 for this useful post.
matt on 6/15/2021(UTC)
Offline matt  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, June 15, 2021 11:01:49 PM(UTC)
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This is not the place for "Messianics and Hebrew Roots followers." If that's what you're after, you're barking up the wrong tree. As others have suggested, take the time to examine the materials comprising the YY works. You will see this is something else entirely, something that if you can let go of your religion, will benefit you immeasurably.
thanks 1 user thanked matt for this useful post.
Mowriyah7 on 6/18/2021(UTC)
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