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Offline Stewart James  
#1 Posted : Saturday, July 29, 2017 3:40:26 AM(UTC)
Stewart James
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I have posted the problem I am encountering with the "New Testament" in the Twilight Zone.

All text with "quote marks" are questionable renditions of Towrah and mis used words and names, plus groups of non Towrah people!

Basically I have focussed for the most part upon the "New Testament" which is proving problematic to me at this time. Comparing "New Testament" and "Old Testament" I see some differences, yet in discussions with other "religious" people, I have questioned some beliefs which spring from the "New Testament" like "Sabbath done away with" "Laws nailed to the cross" I have proved to myself something very different from the "Bible", without using Towrah!

I always referred back to the "Old Testament" and that according to the words I read, the Sabbath was for generations to come, so how can it be done away with if it is holy and set apart? since the 4th "Commandment" was directly opposed to it and "Jesus" has said Matthew 5:18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

So as expressed in the Twilight Zone recent post of mine - Witness of Yahowsha from the Apostles- what gives? I am questioning what exactly I can believe in the "New Testament"?

Even reading through Yada Yah, I see quotes and pieces of the "NT" referred to, that implies that their is some belief in the writings found there! Does this mean that perhaps as I have found, referring back to to "OT" to confirm the "NT" is the only way to go? Of course now that means actually referring back to the Towrah as I now understand and long since suspected.

I always wondered why some ministers and those who profess "Christianity" refer to so many different "bibles"? I kept asking, why so many "bibles"? Which one is correct? Online you can find a website that compares most of today's Enlish "bibles" with each other to get a better understanding of the meanings written. Now I realize that not one is correct and that you need to cut to the quick, as is the expression. Go back to the original Towrah to find the truth! Thanks to Yada, parts of the Towrah become more understandable, otherwise I would have no chance! Once I have finished y first pass of Yada Yah (long way to go yet), then I want to take a course in Hebrew, perhaps modern as wel as ancient Hebrew for comparison.

I already have some links on Facebook and You Tube to begin such a journey, a journey well worth the time and effort. This will be my fourth and perhaps the hardes language I will learn. I can also speak, read and write in French and because I live in Thailand, a little Thai!

I would like to suggest a new forum link please that deals only with the "New Testament" and how we should view what is written! For me thhs is a pretty important issue and since there is a link for Questioning Paul, how about a link - Questioning the New Testament?
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken, or cease being honest!
Offline James  
#2 Posted : Sunday, July 30, 2017 12:35:49 PM(UTC)
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Stewart, Yada Yah has been an ever evolving book. If you had read the first draft there many quotes and citations of Paul's work, but once Yada came to recognize Paul for the fraud he was Yada removed those quotes and citations. The same is true for the NT. Early on Yada reference what he called the Renewed Covenant text, but has since come to recognize that the Covenant has not yet been renewed. Yada's view and trust in the Greek text has significantly been reduced the more he has studied, and while he has tried to edit the book to reflect what he has learned, some of it remains.

Personally my view of the Greek text is that they are just this side of worthless. Having studied the oldest manuscripts, and the history of its transmission I recognize that the fidelity of what we have today is atrocious. There are countless variants just among the manuscripts from the first three centuries. Even more when you look at what came afterwards, including whole stories being added, Yahowsha never said “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.”

Combine that with the fact that it is a translation from Hebrew, Yahowsha did not speak Greek he spoke Hebrew, and His followers spoke and wrote in Hebrew. So to even have a hope of understanding the Greek text you have to have a strong grasp of both Greek and Hebrew because you cannot simply translate the Greek into English you need to be able to as best as possible determine what Hebrew word would have been used, and then translate that. And while with a word like Ecclesia, literally call out, it is easy to figure out that it would have been Miqra, out called assembly, most words are not that easy.

So to even have any hope you have to determine
1. Is it available in the oldest manuscripts, if not is there evidence that it could have been there?
2. Are the discrepancies amongst the oldest manuscripts, or between the oldest manuscripts and the newer ones, is so which is correct?
3. What Hebrew word would best convey this Greek word?
And after all that you are still at this is my best guess.

I have spent a lot of time translating the Towrah, Prophets and Psalms, and love every minute of it. The reward far outweighs the challenges that I encounter. I have tried to translate a handful of the Greek passages, and have found without fail that the insights gained, if any, do not justify the effort that is required. I would much rather spend my time in the Hebrew than the Greek.

Keep in mind also that the Apostles did not have the Greek New Testament, they studied the Towrah and taught others to study the Towrah. Yahowsha pointed people to the Towrah. The evidence is clear that the Apostles never intended for what they wrote to be considered Scripture, and the people of the day didn’t consider it to be Scripture, which is why they felt so free to edit it. They were merely conveying what they had seen and experienced. They are at best Historical documents.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
thanks 1 user thanked James for this useful post.
Stewart James on 8/2/2017(UTC)
Offline Stewart James  
#3 Posted : Thursday, August 3, 2017 5:33:43 AM(UTC)
Stewart James
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Hello James, thank you for your extensive reply and I understand what you are saying about Greek language! The Latin Vulgate is vulgar and anything associated with it! No, I have not read the early Yada Yah works, so have not seen Yada's reference to anything other that what currently exits. I understand that as new light is shed, so should we respond!

I have just finished ITG 03 Towrah and ITG is proving quite a lengthy read as I am making notes along the way so I have reference points to re visit and re read should the need arise with my poor brain and memory!

So really you are saying that the whole of the NT is next to useless? I suppose that would be unless it is corrborated by the Torah?

I think we need to keep in mind that the NT is the word of man, not of Yahowah! As such it is open to all kinds of misdemenour!

I find that a shame as in particular the witnesss to Yahowsha, hijacked with the implanted name of Jesus Christ, can be used by religion and governemnts to manipulate people more than the Torah which has a witness in the Dead Sea Scolls 11QPS! Wheareas the NT is open to interpretation unless you can find the same reference in the Towrah. So my next question is what have you folks found that is actually corroborated in the Towrah compared to the NT?

I am finding it hard to let go of the NT, such is the influence exerted upon me, that I can certainly have empathy for Chrisians who are trying to come out (not gay)!

Paul (Apollos) is a whole different matter and I have yet to dig into Yada's tomes on that subject. Suffice to say I have long since questioned what Paul had to say and even without the Towrah, I had my own personal questions that did not sit right with me!

Thanks again James, but I guess your answer is not to Questioning the New Testament (excluding Paul)? I still think it would be useful as I would like information about who were the writers of the books! Were there more than one contributor and so on!
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken, or cease being honest!
Offline James  
#4 Posted : Thursday, August 3, 2017 7:56:24 AM(UTC)
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Quote:

So really you are saying that the whole of the NT is next to useless? I suppose that would be unless it is corrborated by the Torah?

I would say that it has it’s uses, particularly in showing Christians that according to their Jesus nothing in the Towrah is done away with or changed, and in being a historical document showing that what the Towrah said would happen has happened. But as far as using it to come to know and understand Yahowah better your time is better spent in the Tanakh.

Quote:
I think we need to keep in mind that the NT is the word of man, not of Yahowah!


Exactly. It is at best a historical document, and should always be viewed as such.

Quote:
I am finding it hard to let go of the NT, such is the influence exerted upon me, that I can certainly have empathy for Chrisians who are trying to come out (not gay)!


I came to know Yahowah from the position of an agnostic, so it was not as difficult for me let it go. My wife however came from the Christian position and struggled to let go of the name Jesus, and the NT, but she examined the evidence and because of her desire to know God for who He is she came to know Him.

Quote:
Paul (Apollos) is a whole different matter and I have yet to dig into Yada's tomes on that subject. Suffice to say I have long since questioned what Paul had to say and even without the Towrah, I had my own personal questions that did not sit right with me!


It was coming to recognize Paul as a false apostle that made things completely click for my wife. She too had her misgivings about Paul, but was afraid to question “the word of god.” But once she saw how in conflict his words were with God’s her questions about Yahowah’s plan as laid out in the Towrah went away.

Quote:

Thanks again James, but I guess your answer is not to Questioning the New Testament (excluding Paul)?


Not sure what you mean by this.

Quote:
I still think it would be useful as I would like information about who were the writers of the books! Were there more than one contributor and so on!


Yahowchanan/John and Mattanyah/Matthew were the only two eyewitness account. Mark is believed to have been taught by Shimown/Peter and have recorded his story. Luke was a historian gathering listening to many eye witnesses and trying to gather what happened and then wrote down what to the best of his ability he thought happened.

The only book in the NT that can be argued as being Yahowah’s Word is Yahowchanan’s Revelation, but we do not have a Hebrew copy of it, and most of it is not extant in the earliest manuscripts, so it is really hard to know what to trust in it.

Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
thanks 1 user thanked James for this useful post.
Stewart James on 8/4/2017(UTC)
Offline Stewart James  
#5 Posted : Friday, August 4, 2017 12:31:48 PM(UTC)
Stewart James
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Originally Posted by: James Go to Quoted Post
Quote:

Thanks again James, but I guess your answer is not to Questioning the New Testament (excluding Paul)?


Not sure what you mean by this.

I meant to say I guess your answer is no to a section on Questioning the New Testament!

Thank you for your reply!

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken, or cease being honest!
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