logo
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
View
Go to last post Go to first unread
Offline James  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, December 16, 2015 9:00:44 AM(UTC)
James
Joined: 10/23/2007(UTC)
Posts: 2,530
Man
Location: Texas

Thanks: 5 times
Was thanked: 197 time(s) in 138 post(s)
R wrote:
Was listening to an SM archive from earlier this year and you were talking with Roy from Australia about the age of the universe, its edge and what appears to be a black hole at the "perceived" edge of the universe. Since one cannot discern any light beyond what is considered the edge of the universe, but, there appears to be a massive massive black hole, could it be that it is because of this massive black hole that no light can be viewed? Since a black hole of this size may be sucking in the light that would otherwise be perceptible.

I suppose there are many possibilities that only imagination married to logic and science would eventually discover more of the beauty of the universe. And at every turn we will undoubtedly find Yahowah's hand.


Yada wrote:
R,

I suspect that what science is claiming is that there is a massive, energetic entity beyond the observable universe that cannot be seen using our telescopes, but is nonetheless there and influencing everything else. What, or Who, do you suppose lies beyond what we can see matching this depiction?

While Yah is the antithesis of a black hole in nature, He is massive, influential, and supremely energetic. And yet I suspect that it's the seventh dimension that they are observing at the edge of the four we can understand and six that we know exist, it's just speculation on my part - imagination married to logic and science.

As for beauty, I completely agree. In every place and at every turn.
Yada
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
thanks 1 user thanked James for this useful post.
Fred Snell on 11/4/2016(UTC)
Offline James  
#2 Posted : Friday, January 15, 2016 7:27:28 PM(UTC)
James
Joined: 10/23/2007(UTC)
Posts: 2,530
Man
Location: Texas

Thanks: 5 times
Was thanked: 197 time(s) in 138 post(s)
Roy wrote:
Hi Yada,
Thank you for providing the Q and A for my talk on evolution. Without your input it would have been a boring presentation and one that probably would not have been well understood. That is why I suggested to Kirk during Frank’s shabbat show that he (and others) might like to participate. As you’ve probably guessed I’m not a good public speaker.
One issue with the talk you touched on is that how front-loading could overcome the effects of thermodynamics when the probability of gene changes from beneficial mutations was so small.
I think this is where chaos theory comes in. Since this is a relatively new branch of science many of its ideas seem not only strange but quite bizarre. There is, however, considerable experimental evidence underlying the theory.
Jacki (and Kirk) have questions surrounding the idea of jumps between stable states within chaos so I have written what I think is a plausible explanation. One very important point is that no matter what direction you approach evolution from, there is always a primal intelligence behind it that cannot be denied – Yah.
Roy


Yada wrote:
Roy,

You are an outstanding speaker and excellent writer. You are an especially talented researcher and thinker. No one seeking the truth is going to be bored by anything you have to say.

The reasons for style I opted to deploy has nothing to do with you, other than I knew that you would handle it beautifully. The Q and A format necessitates the presenter sharing what they know in a way that works better in an audio format. Further, it facilitates understanding by underscoring and summarizing important points along the way.

Unless we repeat ourselves it's difficult for most of us to transfer information from short to long term memory. And by summarizing, we have the opportunity to prioritize and make connections, both of which aid in learning. That way everybody walks away with something that they can apply to their relationship with Yah. Some may come to understand several new insights. Others may come to comprehend everything you had to say and go beyond it.

I'm fond of the front loading idea but will have to read your letter a couple of more times to appreciate the connection with chaos theory. Then I'll want to tie this to Yah and His nature and plan.

Let's do another show on dimensions. Even if we repeat much of what we've said, that's a good thing. This is important territory.

Yada
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
thanks 1 user thanked James for this useful post.
Fred Snell on 11/4/2016(UTC)
Offline James  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, February 9, 2016 2:40:20 PM(UTC)
James
Joined: 10/23/2007(UTC)
Posts: 2,530
Man
Location: Texas

Thanks: 5 times
Was thanked: 197 time(s) in 138 post(s)
Roy wrote:
Hi Yada,

I was listening to recent archives of BTR.

I note that you seem uncomfortable with the concept of Yah’s use of chaos.

The basic question is: why would Yah want to build a universe at all? – let alone an indeterminate one?

The latter part of the question has an easy answer: because He had to. He wanted to build a universe as part of the process of building a family with which He could live forever.

He wants a family of individuals who have their own personalities and way of approaching life that makes their company interesting and who have chosen Him and His covenant based upon free will.

He wants to explore this universe, the next and any other universes in higher dimensions with us. If He already knew exactly what was in those universes would it be of interest to Him? He could say “Around the next corner is a beautiful slender waterfall. I know this because I created it that way. I know everything in every time and place.” What would be the point for Him in doing that? If He could see what was coming in the future it would be boring and if He could know all the physical features before He got there with us, it would become dull and boring very quickly.

One of the interesting things about our lives is that, even though we know our physical bodies must eventually die, the time between birth and death is one surprise after another – some good, some bad, some uplifting, some devastating. If you could see the future you would know from minute to minute what was coming and you couldn’t change it for then it would no longer be your future. It would be like living through Groundhog Day but without any change and without an ending. It would be a form of hell.

The same is true for Yah

He cannot see His future in the dimension in which He exists. He can see ours in a lower dimension because He can maneouvre in His dimension to see our future in our dimension.

So how would He create a universe in any dimension such that each ‘day’ would be unpredictable to Him and to us and at the same time allow free will?

Answer: quantum mechanics and chaos.

Chaos and quantum mechanics really are related. Quantum mechanics is unpredictability at the level of the very small and chaos is unpredictability at larger scales. Chaos was called non-linear dynamics because the equations that govern processes that are chaotic are generally non-linear. It was discovered in mathematics that some very simple equations have chaotic solutions. Thus the Mandelbrot set is the ‘solution’ of a simple quadratic equation in the complex domain. (Complex here refers to complex numbers which have a ‘real’ part and an ‘imaginary’ part.)

When we think of chaos, we think of a system that is completely random where nothing is predictable.

Yet, in chaos that is not true. Though it may sound counter-intuitive, order arises within chaos. This concept has been adequately explained in Gleick’s book on chaos and I won’t attempt it here.

I understand you were uncomfortable with the concept of chaos theory because Yah led his people away from chaos. And indeed He did – but from Satan’s version of chaos. Satan cannot alter in any way the fundamental rules that govern the creation. Only Yah can do that. The problem lies in conflating chaos which is built into the universe with chaos produced in the human mind under the influence of the adversary. The latter form of chaos results in the chaotic societies in which we live with death and destruction everywhere. That is what Yah leads us away from.

Putting it another way: when we finally exist with Yah in His home, we will have the benefit of Yah’s teaching and way of thinking built into us with the small ‘t’ torah but without the mental chaos that Satan provides. The universe(s) around us will still be quantum mechanical and chaotic as it must be to provide an environment for creation and exploration.

Bottom line:

Satan uses chaos in the minds of men to return the earth to a chaotic state – to destroy its ordered form

Yah uses chaos to produce an ordered structure from within the underlying chaos of the universe so that free will and the fun and excitement in an indeterminate universe can occur

Most brilliant of all is that Yah uses Satan as an agent of chaos to allow a choice between Satan’s version of chaos – the total destruction of an ordered universe in which no material life can exist – and His version - a highly desirable state derived from the underlying chaotic nature of the universe.

And... the chaos of the universe in making it indeterminate even for the creator saves us all from a different form of hell.

Roy


Yada wrote:
Roy,

I've ordered Gleick's book, and two more on the subject. I'll read them.

Your explanation is compelling, but not complete - and that's not a criticism, but instead shows my failure to appreciate the planning, clarity, and predictability possible within chaos.

For example, Yahowah is predictable. That is what makes Him trustworthy. And the equation He calculated and then deployed to conceive the universe and life was designed to create a suitable environment for life to thrive - and to make it interesting. The result was by design, not chance.

Further, I'm wrestling with a conflict in my mind between clarity and chaos, with Yahowah and His teaching being clear. That said, the choices available to us as we translate His words reveal the opportunity for clarity to emerge from chaos with observation. I find religious translations chaotic. And my primary mindset in rendering an accurate and complete translation is being clear, consistent, predictable, and dependable.

I completely agree with your starting position. And I fully appreciate your logical extrapolations from it. Every word of it appeals to my perspective on Yahowah and His towrah. Your email is brilliantly written. I'm humbled by the fact that you would devote the time to help me understand all of this. With your permission, I'm considering adding much of this to the conclusion of the 01 chapter of Observations for Our Time.

I agree, Yah had to create the universe and life. And you have correctly surmised the reason. It's beautiful.

Now my challenge is to appreciate how clarity, predictability, dependability, and planning operate within chaos. So with your help, I'm making progress. I'm just not there yet.

At issue for me is the textbook definition of chaos: "complete disorder and confusion, mayhem and disorganization." That said, the scientific definition is compelling: "a state in which behavior and events are not controlled by anything, a state in which chance [i.e., choice] is supreme." This may be the challenge I have with religious terms, where their meaning is interpreted differently by the faithful. Chaos has a common, a religious, and a scientific definition.

Once the term chaos is properly defined, I'm considerably more comfortable. And that is a legacy of the translations I've processed over the past decade. Properly defining words to understand the message is a central to my way of thinking.

Bottom line: I like where this is going. I enjoy reading your emails. I think you are on to something very significant. And I want to get there deliberately and thoughtfully, which is going to take some time. Meanwhile, I greatly appreciate your patience with me. I do not share your wealth of scientific knowledge, so this is a much slower process for me. And unfortunately, my mind isn't as elastic as it once was, so I'm a bit retarded when it comes to fully appreciating the nuances of chaos, dimensions, and evolution.

I am eager to learn, however, and find it enjoyable.

Yada
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
thanks 1 user thanked James for this useful post.
Fred Snell on 11/4/2016(UTC)
Offline James  
#4 Posted : Thursday, February 11, 2016 8:51:37 AM(UTC)
James
Joined: 10/23/2007(UTC)
Posts: 2,530
Man
Location: Texas

Thanks: 5 times
Was thanked: 197 time(s) in 138 post(s)
Roy wrote:
Yada,

Thank you for your kind response. By all means use these ideas in any way you like. Like you I’m here to put these ideas forward for people to criticize, accept or reject and like you, I’m enjoying solving the puzzles both scientific and spiritual that Yah has set us. My training in science gave me a way of thinking in which precision is given the highest status.

I understand I’m somewhere between 5 and 10 years older than you (I’m 66, nearly 67) and I’m very much aware of how my mental faculties are declining. I can no longer think fast enough to hold my own in an open debate – especially on a complex subject. At the same time I’m aware my vocabulary is decreasing in that I have the old person’s disease of slow recall of particular words. I’m hoping this is just aging and not the early signs of dementia which is known to be associated with diabetes. At any rate, these discussions keep my mind exercised so that it will hopefully last a few more years.

Having said that, I’m convinced from my own experience that the issues I am pursuing are not entirely from me. I’ve asked Yah, our Father, to help and guide me and I’ve noticed since then that ideas just seem to pop into my mind that connect the dots. I’m convinced the Spirit is helping me and all of us to a greater understanding as mans’ time here on earth draws to a close and so that we can be more effective communicators. Of course, my strengths are in science, whereas yours lie with Yah’s Word.

Not only that, I’m convinced when I look back through my life that I’ve been guided in what I’ve chosen to do. Like Dowd I’ve had time out for bad behavior but I’ve come to realise that my bad behavior is what Yah would expect of us (but not condone) since we are really in an environment in which choices between good and bad are made every day. We are too weak and too ill-informed on the whole to ever get it right every time. None of that matters provided we don’t continually commit the unforgivable crime.

Don’t put yourself down as far as science is concerned. My experience in listening and corresponding with you convinces me that if you had gone into science and not business you would now have many PhDs after your name. The forensic precision as shown in your writings combined with your obvious imagination (which is something we all need to progress with an idea) is far greater than mine and anyone else I’ve heard on the various shows. I would never be able to do what you have done.

If I may I’ll respond to many of the points you have made:

‘Yahowah is predictable. That is what makes Him trustworthy.’ I couldn’t agree more. Yah manifests logic and reason, the ‘stuff’ that holds the universe together. The moment Yah began to act like Allah, the universe would disappear back into the chaotic ‘goo’ from which it came. Satan is therefore a manifestation of chaos. Question: Are logic and reason qualities that exist independent of Yah?

Yah is saying in effect: ‘Choose logic and reason which wrests from the underlying chaos of the universe the beautiful creations that I have made or choose chaos by siding with the Adversary which means no beautiful creation but only confusion and death’

‘…the equation He calculated and then deployed to conceive the universe and life was designed to create a suitable environment for life to thrive - and to make it interesting. The result was by design, not chance.‘

True, the result was by design but the design did employ chance in that Yah was using a loaded dice. His design would eventually appear no matter what but to be able to have continuing interest and free will it had to be that way. You can’t have a predictable ‘Newtonian’ universe and at the same time have free will and infinitely varied outcomes which make life interesting. The outcome is known from the beginning in a Newtonian universe.

Keep in mind also that very few equations are linear and hence easy to solve. The vast majority are non-linear and are either insoluble in a closed form (i.e. there are an infinite number of possible solutions) or can’t be solved at all. You may have seen the beautiful images that come from the Mandelbrot set. These come from a very simple equation which itself exhibits chaos – but importantly there is order within that chaos: Zn+1=Zn + C. C is a complex number (it has both ‘real’ and ‘imaginary’ parts). Simple iteration of this equation produces those beautiful images. There are many more examples of this sort of equation.

‘…Yahowah and His teaching being clear…’ I think you have sensed in the way you expressed the following sentence that His teaching is not clear – to most people. That is to say this is deliberate on Yah’s part (not a mistake), so that He can draw from humanity those He wants to know and live with and leave the rest. As you know there are many possible translations of His word, many of which are valid but to some degree contradict one another. There is also from this ‘chaos’ a beautiful image of Yah’s personality, intelligence and plan – if you want to see it. His way of communicating with us may be to point us to the chaotic nature of the universe.

The only question I still have is: did Yah create chaos to fulfill His plan or is chaos another ‘quality’ that exists independent of Him?

On another matter I’m corresponding with Frank about this lecture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od-xkRDw6nk

I found it to be in many ways wrong and misleading though I did not manage to get all the way through as I found the atmosphere of the rabbinical Judaism nauseating. It reminded me strongly of the time I was in Israel and I saw these black-hatted rabbinical cockroaches scurrying out of a synagogue. I thought at the time that if anyone was inclined to be anti-semitic that scene would tip them over the edge.

I would appreciate your opinion on that lecture.

This letter is getting overly long, so I’ll stop here.

Roy


Yada wrote:
Roy,

Perhaps it's not a factor of growing older, but wiser. The more I come to know, the less I am impressed with myself.

Yahowah is impressive. We are just beginning our voyage of discovery.

And keep in mind, Yahowah chose an 80 year old with a speech impediment to articulate His Towrah. And He chose a bad man to explain how to be right. Yah can wield flawed implements like you and me, like every member of His Covenant, effectively. We don't have to be impressive, because He is.

I concur with you, which was the primary intent of my previous letter. I think you are onto something very important and also that Yah is inspiring your insights. You are the right man at the right time to convey this message.

Creation, dimensions, life, and choice are all essential elements of His nature and story. They are not just the product of Yah, they represent the benefits He is offering. The more we understand these concepts, the better we understand who Yahowah is, what He has told us, and what He is offering to us.

Appreciating the existence of seven dimensions is central to understanding creation and the covenant. Appreciating the creation is essential for us to understand why we exist and why the Covenant is being offered, helping us become compelling troubadours to a world mired in the myth and muck of religion.

Life as it was conceived, as it has evolved, is a powerful witness to the Creator. The more we know about the process, what did and did not occur, the more effective witnesses we become in the secular humanist world.

Choice is the prime directive. Chaos helps explain freewill as well as what makes Yah's creation so interesting. So yes, chaos / choice / unforeseen outcomes were all part of the original calculation and plan. And that is why Yahowah admits to having created Satan. He was necessary.

Your note has inspired me to rewrite the opening few pages of Observations for Our Time. I'm currently working away around page 25, so 01 is a long way from being a finished product. I have not yet incorporated your comments from yesterday's letter but intend to do so at the conclusion of the chapter.

As always, your edits, additions, and criticisms are appreciated. The in process chapter is attached.

Yada

PS, the difference in age is only 5 years. I am 61.

Not that it matters now, I have wondered what I might have discovered if I had chosen science. Perhaps nothing of value, but science like history remains a passion because of what can be learned in the pursuit of knowledge and understanding.

While I do not accept any notion that I have done something you could not have done, I rather like the rest of what you had to say. I have tried to deploy "forensic precision." I certainly enjoy that aspect of translation and investigative comparison and analysis. Further, I concur that "imagination" is central to evaluation and thinking, to forming and supporting extrapolated conclusions. It is the way we progress from knowing something to understanding it.

I suspect that the only reason that this process and result is uncommon is because so few have been interested in closely examining and carefully considering what Yahowah had to say in His own words. His testimony leads to places most people are uncomfortable going. Very few people have been willing to go to the place His words lead because of the places they lead us away from.

But there is great satisfaction in knowing, great empowerment in understanding.

Yada
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
thanks 2 users thanked James for this useful post.
AbiYah on 4/30/2016(UTC), Fred Snell on 11/4/2016(UTC)
Offline James  
#5 Posted : Monday, July 11, 2016 7:56:53 AM(UTC)
James
Joined: 10/23/2007(UTC)
Posts: 2,530
Man
Location: Texas

Thanks: 5 times
Was thanked: 197 time(s) in 138 post(s)
Roy wrote:
Hi Yada,
William Thias brought Jeremy England to my attention during Frank’s discussion today. I have an idea you may have mentioned him in one of the Observation talks but I cannot recall which one. I checked out a web site concerning his work on thermodynamics and the spontaneous generation of order. (Remember this is one of the concepts brought up in the book on Chaos). The basic thrust of his argument - if presented correctly by the author of the article - is that abiogenesis is possible if his new theory is correct. Hence there is no need for a creator. The site is: https://www.quantamagazi...-physics-theory-of-life/
The idea as expressed in the article is that atoms and molecules restructure themselves in a heat gradient environment (e.g. electromagnetic radiation from the sun) in such as way as to dissipate the heat. Heat is, of course, energy and energy is information. So the dissipation of heat is really the loss of information. It has been known for a long time that atoms and molecules will under the right circumstances self- organize. I mentioned the formation of crystals in my discussion on evolution. He has simply given a mathematical description of the ‘how’ this occurs. Again keep in mind that crystals of water (ice) or carbon (diamond) or even macromolecules are low information structures. It is also important to note that though there is a lot of water on earth most of it is not in a crystallized form. Likewise with carbon. In other words the circumstances for the formation of these crystalline states is critical.
The spontaneous generation of life is another matter.
Whilst it is true that it is theoretically possible for large organic molecules to form spontaneously, it is not true that these molecules will either contain useful information or be able to express that information. Outside the sophisticated machinery of the cell even high information molecules such as DNA are useless. England’s theory is that the energy gradient found in an open system will under the right circumstances cause the formation of large organic molecules that form the basis of life.
He has found a mathematical expression for one means by which molecules form the bonds between them. Good information but it does not explain the enormous amount of information stored in DNA nor the sophistication of the structures that enable this information to be realized. The underlining is to bring to your attention the fact that in an open system circumstances can and will vary from time to time and place to place. Thus water will form ice crystals of low information at the poles but few other places and carbon will form diamonds of low information under immense heat and pressure but nowhere else. Self replication of DNA is possible but is very slow without the use of catalysts called enzymes. Under the circumstances where a polymerase enzyme is present the reaction is very fast.

In his paper, the theory is developed on a microscopic (read atomic or molecular) level assuming a heat gradient that will allow thermodynamic processes that at the microscopic level can occur reversibly. This is the gist of the first set of equations. Thermodynamic equilibrium is when the forward process is as likely as the reverse process and so nothing happens. We are therefore thermodynamically far from equilibrium - equilibrium is death.
The next set of equations relate to macroscopic irreversibility i.e. processes we know from life. He has extended macroscopic thermodynamic irreversibility using two macroscopic states designated I and II. I goes to II in the forward direction and II goes to I in the reverse direction. He then shows the ratio of the two is always greater than zero, giving us the result we know that entropy is always increasing.
The discussion of self replication of polynucleotides was informative but lacked some vital considerations: The RNA backbone relative to DNA is easily formed and broken down whereas the DNA backbone has a spontaneous hydrolysis (i.e. water break down) half-life of 10^12 years. Yes, you read that correctly. The enzyme that breaks it down has a reaction constant, k, of 10 to the minus 20 per second. In other words the backbone of DNA can be readily made as a polymer but can’t easily be broken down in water without a catalyst being present. The enzyme (a protein with a high information state for its sequence which is coded by DNA) is so fast that it is the ratio between 10^20 and 10^12 fast. Additionally the discussion relates to the phosphodiester linkage of the DNA nucleotides. The latter comprise the deoxy-ribose sugar and the purine/pyrimidine adjuncts. These carry the coding sequence of the DNA. So even under the best case scenario in which the purine or pyrimidine finds the deoxy -ribose sugar to link to, a single DNA molecule spontaneously forms. Provided it is in a water-only environment (i.e. there are no nucleases to break it down in the environment) if it non-functional (i.e. the sequence codes for nothing functional), that molecule is taken out of any further consideration for acting as a template for self-replication (for at least a trillion years). Self replication forms the basis of England’s argument about the thermodynamic feasibility of macro-evolution. So the non functional DNA molecule is useless in macroevolution and we are back to starting all over again with a repeat of the statistical arguments that we have already addressed in excruciating detail. Thus to make just one potentially functional DNA molecule of, say, 100 base pairs, coding for a protein of 33 amino acids (a small protein) requires 4^100 X 1 hours (one hour is the time taken to spontaneously form one phosphodiester bond in DNA) or 3.8 X 10^23 years to form the whole functional molecule. The earth has been able to host life for about 3.8 X 10^9 years. Thus only about 0.4 of a functional protein of 33 amino acids can statistically be made in the whole time the earth could support life. When you consider that 33 amino acid protein is tiny and that there are thousands of different proteins each much bigger than 33 AAs in each cell, not to mention the formation of the machinery to make these reactions of (enzymes) I doubt England has made his case for macroevolution. Add to that the fact that as soon as free water was present on earth a few million years after its formation life in the form of archaebacteria appeared. These are still with us today and are not primitive organisms as far as bacteria go.
He has made a case for micro evolution that we already agree did in fact occur as a result of quantum mechanics, thermodynamics, chaos and importantly by the actions of a front-loading designer.
What you will find interesting is many of the comments that follow the article, in particular mention of earlier researchers including Prigogine.
Roy


Yada wrote:

I enjoyed reading your assessment of England's formulated theory. In particular, seeing that the half life of DNA is in the same magnitude as the differential in relative time from the Big Bang was an eyeopener. Matter and life run on the same clock.

While I do not have your mental capacity for the things of science, intuitively I have seen energy, matter, and life as different only in the way they are programmed and organized. I think it is all comprised of the same thing, conceived and introduced at the same time to deliver the outcome we are experiencing, albeit with a healthy dose of Chaos Theory to make the process volitional and interesting.

As you have so astutely presented, while England chose math to prove his theory, the math still does not work. A rational person viewing this from the proper perspective recognizes that it actually demonstrates that for all practical purposes, life is the product of design. We haven't moved away from the tornado in a junkyard producing a flying jumbo jet. Your assessment of the probability was astute. Thank you.

I've been struggling recently with a horrible outbreak of systemic poison ivy, but it's finally healing. I've rewritten the first 7 chapters of Observations and have just this moment finished the 8th, this one devoted to Yah's relationship with Dowd. It was supposed to identify the location of Tsyown, but it turned out to suggest that Dowd is Tsyown - at least that is my conclusion.

Yada

Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
thanks 1 user thanked James for this useful post.
Fred Snell on 11/4/2016(UTC)
Offline James  
#6 Posted : Friday, October 14, 2016 9:51:42 AM(UTC)
James
Joined: 10/23/2007(UTC)
Posts: 2,530
Man
Location: Texas

Thanks: 5 times
Was thanked: 197 time(s) in 138 post(s)
DD wrote:
Shalom Yada,
I am writing to ask you what is your understanding of the so called planet x causing massive damage to earth in 2017. I know that you have stated that the asteroid Apophis will strike the earth in 2029 in the middle of the tribulation, but are you aware of this planet x speculation and that it is a brown dwarf star(a binary twin of our sun) accompanied by its own solar system which is already inside our solar system and should cause major damage in a year or two? Many are saying it is the reason that the elites have built underground bases and that it is spoken of in Revelation as the dragon and that it is what the kings and great men are hiding from in the rocks(underground bases) in Revelation.
I really would like to hear your opinion on this matter.

Peace to YAHOWAHs family,


Yada wrote:
I'm not an expert on every theory, not even on most theories, but I'm 100% certain based upon what you have said and what I've seen in passing, that this is a conspiracy theory, not science. There is no planet x. 2017 will come and go without a brown dwarf, a symbiotic solar system, or planet x causing any damage, much less massive damage to earth.

So no, I do not think that there is any merit to this or to the idea that Revelation was addressing underground government bases.

It is interesting, however, to note that the promoters of Nibiru / PlanetX are also promoting Christian interpretations of prophecy and extraterrestrials.

Sorry. But there is nothing to this apart from myth and fantasy.

Yada

I thought you might find this interesting. It is from Wiki...

The idea that a planet-sized object will collide with or closely pass by Earth in the near future is not supported by any scientific evidence and has been rejected as pseudoscience and an Internet hoaxby astronomers and planetary scientists.[2][3]
The idea was first put forward in 1995 by Nancy Lieder,[4][5] founder of the website ZetaTalk. Lieder describes herself as a contactee with the ability to receive messages from extraterrestrials from the Zeta Reticulistar system through an implant in her brain. She states that she was chosen to warn mankind that the object would sweep through the innerSolar System in May 2003 (though that date was later postponed) causing Earth to undergo a physical pole shift that would destroy most of humanity.[6] The prediction has subsequently spread beyond Lieder's website and has been embraced by numerous Internet doomsday groups, most of which linked the event to the 2012 phenomenon. Since 2012, the Nibiru cataclysm has frequently reappeared in the popular media; usually linked to newsmaking astronomical objects such asComet ISON or Planet Nine. Although the name "Nibiru" is derived from the works of the ancient astronaut writer Zecharia Sitchin and his interpretations of Babylonian and Sumerian mythology, he denied any connection between his work and various claims of a coming apocalypse.
The idea of the Nibiru encounter originated with Nancy Lieder, a Wisconsinwoman who claims that as a girl she was contacted by gray extraterrestrialscalled Zetas, who implanted a communications device in her brain. In 1995, she founded the website ZetaTalk to disseminate her ideas.[7] Lieder first came to public attention on Internet newsgroups during the build-up to Comet Hale–Bopp's 1997 perihelion. She stated, claiming to speak as the Zetas,[8]that "The Hale–Bopp comet does not exist. It is a fraud, perpetrated by those who would have the teeming masses quiescent until it is too late. Hale–Bopp is nothing more than a distant star, and will draw no closer."[9] She claimed that the Hale–Bopp story was manufactured to distract people from the imminent arrival of a large planetary object, "Planet X", which would soon pass by Earth and destroy civilization.[9] After Hale–Bopp's perihelion revealed it as one of the brightest and longest-observed comets of the last century,[10] Lieder removed the first two sentences of her initial statement from her site, though they can still be found in Google's archives.[9] Her claims eventually made the New York Times.[11]
Lieder described Planet X as roughly four times the size of the Earth, and said that its closest approach would occur on May 27, 2003, resulting in the Earth's rotation ceasing for exactly 5.9 terrestrial days. This would be followed by the Earth's pole destabilising in a pole shift (a physical pole shift, with the Earth's pole physically moving, rather than ageomagnetic reversal) caused by magnetic attraction between the Earth's core and the magnetism of the passing planet. This in turn would disrupt the Earth's magnetic core and lead to subsequent displacement of the Earth's crust.[12]
After Lieder, the first person to propagate her Planet X idea was Mark Hazlewood, a former member of the ZetaTalk community, who in 2001 published a book titled Blindsided: Planet X Passes in 2003. Lieder would later accuse him of being a confidence trickster.[13] A Japanese cult called the Pana Wave Laboratory, which blocked off roads and rivers with white cloths to protect itself from electromagnetic attacks, also warned that the world would end in May 2003 after the approach of a tenth planet.[14]
Roughly a week before the supposed arrival of Planet X in May 2003, Lieder appeared on KROQ-FM radio in Los Angeles, and advised listeners to euthanize their pets in anticipation of the event as she had done.[15] This led theFortean Times to conclude that she had put down her dog(s) to save them from further suffering during the Pole Shift.[16] Later, in a 2004 interview she said that she had euthanized her dog because it was acting aggressively.[17]After the 2003 date passed without incident, Lieder said that it was merely a "white lie ... to fool the establishment."[18]She refused to disclose the true date, saying that to do so would give those in power enough time to declare martial law and trap people in cities during the shift, leading to their deaths.[19] Though Lieder herself has not specified a new date for the object's return, many groups have taken up her idea and cited their own dates. One frequently cited date was December 21, 2012. This date had many apocalyptic associations, as it was the end of a cycle (baktun) in thelong count in the Mayan calendar. Several writers published books connecting the encounter with 2012.[20] Despite that date having passed, many websites still contend that Nibiru/Planet X is en route to Earth.[21]
In 2012, Lieder claimed that U.S. President Barack Obama futilely attempted to announce the presence of Nibiru near the sun.[22] After 2012, she claimed that several world leaders had intended to announce the presence of Nibiru near the sun on October 20, 2014. Two weeks after the supposed date of announcement, she claimed that it did not occur because of consternation amongst the establishment.[23]
Although Lieder originally referred to the object as "Planet X", it has become deeply associated with Nibiru, a planet from the works of ancient astronaut proponentZecharia Sitchin, particularly his book The 12th Planet. According to Sitchin's interpretation of Babylonian religious texts, which contradicts conclusions reached by credited scholars on the subject,[24][25] a giant planet (called Nibiru or Marduk) passes by Earth every 3,600 years and allows its sentient inhabitants to interact with humanity. These beings, which Sitchin identified with the Annunaki of Sumerian myth, would become humanity's first gods.[26] Lieder first made the connection between Nibiru and her Planet X on her site in 1996 ("Planet X does exist, and it is the 12th Planet, one and the same.").[27]
However, Sitchin, who died in 2010, denied any connection between his work and Lieder's claims. In 2007, partly in response to Lieder's proclamations, Sitchin published a book, The End of Days, which set the time for the last passing of Nibiru by Earth at 556 BC, which would mean, given the object's supposed 3,600-year orbit, that it would return sometime around AD 2900.[28] He did however say that he believed that the Annunaki might return earlier by spaceship, and that the timing of their return would coincide with the shift from the astrological Age of Pisces to the Age of Aquarius, sometime between 2090 and 2370.[29]
Astronomers reject the idea of Nibiru, and have made efforts to inform the public that there is no threat to Earth.[30]They point out that such an object so close to Earth would be easily visible to the naked eye. A planet such as Nibiru would create noticeable effects in the orbits of the outer planets.[31] Some counter this by claiming that the object has been concealed behind the Sun for several years, though this would be geometrically impossible.[20] Most photographs showing "Nibiru" by the Sun are in fact of lens flares, false images of the Sun created by reflections within the lens.[32]
Astronomer Mike Brown notes that if this object's orbit were as described, it would only have lasted in the Solar System for a million years or so before Jupiter expelled it, and that there is no way another object's magnetic field could have such an effect on Earth.[33] Lieder's assertions that the approach of Nibiru would cause the Earth's rotation to stop or its axis to shift violate the laws of physics. In his rebuttal of Immanuel Velikovsky's Worlds in Collision, which made the same claim that the Earth's rotation could be stopped and then restarted, Carl Sagan noted that, "the energy required to brake the Earth is not enough to melt it, although it would result in a noticeable increase in temperature: The oceans would [be] raised to the boiling point of water ... [Also,] how does the Earth get started up again, rotating at approximately the same rate of spin? The Earth cannot do it by itself, because of the law of theconservation of angular momentum."[34]
In a 2009 interview with the Discovery Channel, Mike Brown noted that, while it is not impossible that the Sun has a distant planetary companion, such an object would have to be lying very far from the observed regions of the Solar System to have no detectable gravitational effect on the other planets. A Mars-sized object could lie undetected at 300 AU (10 times the distance of Neptune); a Jupiter-sized object at 30,000 AU. To travel 1000 AU in two years, an object would need to be moving at 2400 km/s – faster than the galactic escape velocity. At that speed, any object would be shot out of the Solar System, and then out of the Milky Way galaxy into intergalactic space.[35]
Many believers in the imminent approach of Planet X/Nibiru accuse NASA of deliberately covering up visual evidence of its existence.[36] One such accusation involves the IRAS infrared space observatory, launched in 1983. The satellite briefly made headlines due to an "unknown object" that was at first described as "possibly as large as the giant planetJupiter and possibly so close to Earth that it would be part of this Solar System".[37] This newspaper article has been cited by proponents of the Nibiru cataclysm, beginning with Lieder herself, as evidence for the existence of Nibiru.[38]However, further analysis revealed that of several initially unidentified objects, nine were distant galaxies and the tenth was "galactic cirrus"; none were found to be Solar System bodies.[39]
Another accusation frequently made by websites predicting the collision is that the U.S. government built the South Pole Telescope (SPT) to track Nibiru's trajectory, and that the object has been imaged optically.[40] However, the SPT (which is not funded by NASA) is a radio telescope, and cannot take optical images. Its South Pole location was chosen due to the low-humidity environment, and there is no way an approaching object could be seen onlyfrom the South Pole.[41] The "picture" of Nibiru posted on YouTube was revealed, in fact, to be a Hubble image of the expanding light echo around the star V838 Mon.[40]
Another conspiracy claim regards a patch of missing data in Google Sky near the constellation of Orion, which has often been cited as evidence that Nibiru has been redacted. However, the same region of sky can still be viewed by thousands of amateur astronomers. A scientist at Google said that the missing data is due to a glitch in the stitching software used to piece the images together.[42]
Another piece of claimed evidence drawn from Google Sky is the carbon star Yada Leonis, which is the brightest object in the 10 μm infrared sky and is frequently claimed to be Nibiru.[43]


Roy wrote:
Yada,
I agree. These sorts of whacky theories that don’t even pass elementary reasoning are growing exponentially. An example of this is a web-site Terri sent me a few days ago: www.deepinsidetherabbithole.com.
My response to her about one of the stupidest I have attached.
I wonder about the increasing number of conspiracy theories. Is it mental illness? Drugs? Lack of a sound education? Or is there something even more sinister behind the growth in this stupidity and inability to reason?
One obvious explanation may be to have ridiculous conspiracies in the publics’ face, conditioning the majority of the populace to reject all conspiracy theories including the few genuine and very dangerous conspiracy facts, at the same time lumping those who expose them into the kook army of conspiracy nuts.
The number that involve Israel, Jews and ‘Zionists’ also seems to be increasing and accepted without pushback or even comment on many blogs.
Incidentally, magnetic fields of a static kind such as the earth’s field fall off quasi-exponentially. Thus for a passing planet to have any magnetic effect on earth it would have to crash into earth – in which case we wouldn’t be worried about magnetic effects.

Roy


Yada wrote:
Roy,

The wet rotating ball example is typical of the half truth out of context approach that underlies the promotion of most every myth. It is the approach Satan used in the Garden, that Paul used in his letters, that the 9-11 conspiracy theorists use in their mythology, and that the planet x'ers use to confuse the unthinking.

To expose and condemn such myths requires a reasoned analysis of the facts, all of the facts logically considered, which is something most people are unwilling to do. It is why so few people know Yah. Slight of hand leads the unthinking away from Him. And the way to Him requires considerable effort and thought.

The reason conspiracy theories are being promoted is to undermine the credibility of everyone who is critical of the accepted way - the way of politics and religion, multiculturalism and militarism, tolerance and political correctness, of wrong being right and of right being wrong, of Hilary vs. Trump. Those who oppose the group think are all swept into the same smoldering trash can. If nothing else, our testimony on behalf of Yah is tarnished by the smoke spewn by those who challenge government lies with lies of their own.

The reason conspiracy theories are accepted is because people have been conditioned into accepting rather than thinking. It is the easiest way to control the masses. Most people have lost the ability to be rational. They no longer think. The fact that gravity wasn't considered as a means to constrain the influence of centrifugal force demonstrates just how easy it is to deceive with half truths.

Just as religion and politics serve Satan, so do conspiracy theories. I avoid them like the plague. I don't want to be associated with them or with those who promote them because they undermine the credibility needed to properly present Yah's testimony to informed and rational people.

Flat Earth, PlanetX, the Mayan calendar, and 9-11 are all examples of myths that resonate in a growing percentage of people, confusing them the same way as others have been confused by religion and politics.

Yada

Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
thanks 1 user thanked James for this useful post.
Fred Snell on 11/4/2016(UTC)
Users browsing this topic
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.