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Offline James  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, April 26, 2016 8:24:04 AM(UTC)
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So I decided to start a thread on this based on an email which Richard recieved after April 15th Shabbat show.

Originally Posted by: S,M,S,L& Go to Quoted Post
"In which Yahowah declares unequivocally that He absolutely hates Christianity & Pau."

This is your take on what Blog Talk Radio had to offer on April 15th, sorry, we could’t get past the first few minutes due to Larry”s foul mouthed, offensive words. Won”t be back for this radio show ever again. We get enough of this kind of attitude and language out in the world, aren’t we supposed to be set apart? We’ll stick with Observations, and while we don’t agree with everything that is said (who does) at least it doesn’t burn our ear and make us feel like we just walked into a bar.

There are some in our little group who have been in covenant from 3 to 17 years and no where in our translations have we ever seen where we are encouraged to behave or speak as the world does.
Even David was corrected and suffered consequences due to his behavior! Yes, Yahowah does see our behavior, what he does with that is up to him.

Thank you,

S,M,S,L&E


Richard wrote:
S,M,S,L&E,

While I understand what you're saying and why, I don't undertand why you've told me this. What have I to do with how Larry or anyone else speaks? What control or influence is it that you think I have over the content of any of Yada's broadcasts? The people you ought to be voicing your complaints to are those involved with the broadcasts.

And what is wrong with walking into a bar? That sort of comment causes me to think you're influenced by religious notions. I hope that isn't the case.

Having said all that, I will also say that your concerns over the harsh language are not easy for me personally to brush off. I have probably the foulest mouth you've ever encountered, and that situation bothers me no end. Especially since my wife doesn't even use slang often enough to notice, much less "cuss words". So I can find a reason to appreciate your having written about this to me. It's a motivating factor.

Richard


Yada wrote:
Richard, my friend. We have a lot in common. We participate in the same family and promote the same message. The same is true with Larry. He, like you, is my friend and brother.

As you know, I don't tell you what to say or how to manage your affairs. I don't participate in your website, even though I greatly appreciate what you are doing. The same could be said of Larry's Facebook site. I have never been there or posted on it. But I have seen the results, and they are many.

Different strokes work with different people. Some prefer my style, others hate it. Some yours, others Larry's, everyone Kirk's, Scott's, Jayson's, Roy's, and JB's. But look at who Yah chose to work with, Abraham wasn't the sharpest sword in the sheath, Moseh slurred his words, and Dowd, well, he "f-ed around" a lot. I'd be surprised if he could name half of the women in his harem. When God began listing his sons, each had a different mother, and He didn't even count the ones he fathered through concubines.

Like you, I am guilty from time to time of using foul language. And while I've tried to forestall such outbursts, I'm not in a position to criticize those who sling an occasional f-bomb. I use "pissed" "god damn" and "shit" without a concern, because Yah used similar terms for similar situations. And I'm not bothered by sexuality, because I don't think Yahowah is either.

The reason I don't use the f word, however, is two fold. It was featured in many thousands of threatening and slanderous Muslim emails sent to me as a result of Prophet of Doom. The writers were so stupid, so demented, so abusively violent, I did not want to be anything like them. So I chose not to use their language. There were always better words to use in reply than theirs.

Second, my good friend, Yow'el, once told me that the moment a party to a debate says "f u," they have lost. If they have nothing better to say, they turn to the lowest form of ad hominem. That is all "f u" actually is. So there is a little Yow'el sitting on my shoulder whispering in my ear every time I have the urge to let one rip.

But few have endured what I have experienced, and therefore what's right for me, may not be right for another. Further, Yahowah / Yahowsha' used course language to expose and condemn religious, political, and military adversaries. They hated them. So I'm not a proponent of speaking nicely to those promoting deadly plagues. I do not love them. I do not respect them. Nor do you nor does Larry.

Our pal the Larryinator is not perfect, nor am I or you, but we are passionately engaged in exposing lies while promoting the truth. If some choose to criticize us or leave our company because we are imperfect, then so be it. It's sad, but the cost of compliance is too high. Fortunately, Yah enjoys the company of flawed and passionate people. So do I. I'm not going to criticize Larry or discourage him. Fact is, I like him and enjoy his company.

If I could find a perfect web partner or co-host, I would retire. If Yah could find one, He wouldn't be working with you or me.

Those are my thoughts.

Yada

PS, I rather enjoyed your reply. I like your style. I'm actually glad that you are flawed, because that way we are more comfortable around each other.

And isn't it interesting that the criticism was over the use of a single word, not over a threat, an act of violence, or a crime. Personally, I do not like hearing the word or using the word, for the reasons I've expressed, but it's just a word. We have much bigger fish to fry than this little shrimp.

My advice, while it may well be worthless and errant, is to avoid conflict with what is already a very small family in a very conflicted world. Unless it is a disagreement of great substance which cannot be resolved to anyone's satisfaction regarding Yahowah, the Towrah, or the Covenant, I would rather not walk away from a brother or sister, and instead, celebrate the unique characteristics that make us different and thus interesting.

Yada


James wrote:
"We get enough of this kind of attitude and language out in the world, aren’t we supposed to be set apart?"
" at least it doesn’t burn our ear"
"no where in our translations have we ever seen where we are encouraged to behave or speak as the world does."

It is "the world" which has decided that these words are bad and these words are good. Yahowah understands words for what they are, neither bad nor good, but a tool which we use to communicate ideas. Yahowah does not give us a list of words which are bad and that we should not use, man does. It is the way of "the world" and really just individual societies, to create arbitrary lists of words which are deemed "bad." The closest you can find with Yahowah to this is Him telling us not to speak the names of false God's, but even that is not the same since it isn't speaking the names that Yah has a problem with it is memorializing them. Yahowah doesn't care if I use Allah's name if I am doing so to expose and condemn him. He doesn't care if I use Ba'al if I am using it to expose and condemn the lord. So it is not Yahowah's way to prohibit or even discourage the use of any words.

"Cuss" words are nothing more than words that certain societies, and they vary heavily between cultures, have decided are not "good." So being offended by certain words, and getting upset at people for using certain words is the way of man not the way of Yahowah. Furthermore in English if you study the origin of these words and why they are considered bad it is almost universally based in racism and classism with the English deeming the language of the people they had conquered as being vulgar and offensive so fuck is only bad because it was the Germanic word and not the English word. It's really the most ridiculous thing if you think about it reasonably.

I am in 100% agreement with Yow'el in that telling someone f u in a debate is inappropriate, but for the reason he stated which is that it is an attack on the opponent rather then the argument. It's just as inappropriate to call someone an idiot in a debate, or a fool, and no one would consider those "bad words." I have no problem using "bad words" in a debate if it is to prove a point. I have often used the example of taking to calling Jesus Christ Asshole to prove to Christians that it does matter what you call him. I could use any number of other words which are not on the arbitrary "bad" list, but using this one asserts the point better.

I don't know S, M, S, L or E, but based on their "ears burning" and the offense that they took to a word I think they still have some lingering religious dispositions that need to be unlearned.


Richard, feel free to pass this on to them.


So my question, or interest is in knowing what others think about the use of "bad" language as it relates to our relationship with Yahowah.

To clarify my view is that the words that different cultures consider "bad" is completely arbitrary between cultures and even between people in those cultures. For example growing up in my house darn was a perfectly fine and allowed word, however in Patty's home it was not allowed and considered just as bad as the "F" word. So to what list are to adhere to? If we are to seriously consider removing “bad” words from our vocabulary we are going to need to all carry around a list of the words we define as bad and hand that list to everyone we meet so that they can avoid them and we can avoid their lists.

Second, the reason most “bad” words in English are considered “bad” is because of racism and classism.
http://blog.oxforddictio...-the-history-of-english/
The talk of the peasant class and the conquered nations was considered Vulgar, a Latin word literally meaning of the crowd or of the common. So defecate, of Latin origin, was okay but shit, of Germanic origin, was not. The two words literally mean the same thing, but because the aristocrats of old preferred Latin to the vulgar barbarians that spoke German we now consider one bad and one good. How does this make any sense?

Third and most importantly language and by extension words exist for one sole purpose to communicate ideas. So inherently no word is good or bad morally. They can only be good or bad at conveying the intended message. So the question is rather or not a “bad” word accurately conveys the intention of the speaker/writer. So if I say that Christianity is bullshit or I say it is bull feces doesn’t matter so long as I am conveying the message that Christianity is a lie. Now both ways convey this message, but one does so to a better degree because it is more well-known of a word and more well-known of a saying, and that is the one that uses the “bad” word, so in this case the “bad” word is better at conveying my message then then “good” word.

Fourth they are just words, people should not be offended by words in and of themselves. If I use a “bad” word and it is not directed at you, then you have no reason to be offended. And there are plenty of “good” words that when directed at you are offensive. So why get your knickers in a twist over a word?

Finally, and this is the most important (even more important then 3) what does Yahowah have to say about it? And the answer is nothing. Yahowah never gives a list of “good” and “bad” words, never gives us a list of words that we shouldn’t say. This is a non-issue to Yahowah, and so it should be to us as well.

I’m interested in hearing others responses.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
thanks 1 user thanked James for this useful post.
Fred Snell on 11/5/2016(UTC)
Offline InHisName  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, April 27, 2016 12:48:55 PM(UTC)
InHisName
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I would have to agree with James, et al.

While I certainly cannot read the minds of SMSLE, I think the relevant issue here, as Jame's alluded to, is false religious piousness. (is that a triple oxymoron) That piousness being an extension of the false notion of taking the 'lord's name' in vain => using the 'lord's name' in a curse => general cursing. We know that this is built upon a false interpretation of Yah's actual statement and so has no real basis.

To the contrary, In Larry's story I see word and action that matches my supposed emotional state of anger, frustration and disgust that we see Yahowah and Yahoshaw exhibit when confronting religious types and in just dealing with life. Yahoshaw was certainly not nicey nicey with the pharisees and I have no problem imagining an adjective spoken before viper. And I picture Yahoshaw cursing the fig tree (Mark 11) using more colorful language than is reported in the text. And let's face it Yahowah himself coined the term bullshit.

However... we are not Yah. I think we must be cautious against judging those to whom we are promoting Yahowah's Word. (I know it has taken me time to get on board with some concepts) Many who we want to recieve that Word do have a religious bias. So, using those words may be putting a stumbling block in front of them. Will Larry's website visitor, or even SMSLE, continue to walk towards Yahowah? Hard to say, it may turn them off or it may wake them up. I certainly would not criticise Larry, he has surely been a more effective implement than me. But for myself, I will endeavor to keep away from it. I think it will be better to leave them with Yah's words ringing in their ears, rather than my own.
Offline Glfnaz  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, April 27, 2016 4:00:21 PM(UTC)
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You are making a good point about the definitions of 'good words' / 'bad words' etc and the points are valid. However you also slightly touched on the global subject of 'means of communication'.
As such, here is where I agree also with the original writer who was offended. It isn't just the f-bomb type words or the gutter type talk. Usually there is more to the message when these words are used. There is often energy, emotions, discrimination, arrogance, and any other sort of conndescending bullying associated with the person who is communicating in this way. It's usually a Theory X type of style. I find it not enjoyable and I avoid it. That's just me and anyone else is certainly welcome to their own opinions.
I do not dislike the man (Larry). I've never met him. As a brother I love him. But when he calls into the radio bradcast, I change the channel.
Offline James  
#4 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2016 9:46:16 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Glfnaz Go to Quoted Post
Usually there is more to the message when these words are used. There is often energy, emotions, discrimination, arrogance, and any other sort of conndescending bullying associated with the person who is communicating in this way.


Agreed, but the offense should be directed at that and not at the words. And in the case of the letter recieved the use of the words were not directed at the writer of the letter, but at a completely different individual, so there was no reason for offense to be taken by the writer. The writer was specifically offended by the use of the words, they are offended by anyone using those words for any reason.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline Glfnaz  
#5 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2016 2:29:18 PM(UTC)
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You are probably correct in that regard. I guess my reactions are just different. The use of the words doesn't really bother me as we've all heard them a million times. It's the user of the words that I avoid.
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