masters_apprentice,
Why would anyone here bother to engage with you? You have proven that you have no interest in evidence, reason or rationality. You only wish to state your views and have everyone agree with you.
HERE, I asked you to simply provide proof, evidence or reason for your view while at the same time providing proof, evidence and reason against your view. You simply restated your view as fact again, and ignored everything I said. So with that kind of dialoguing history why would anyone here waste their time engaging with you?
I don't care if you have a 2,200 page manuscript, if you cannot back anything you say up.
For the record, Yada and KP are not the same person. KP was a friend of Yada's, but the two had a falling out when Yada came to understand Paul for the false prophet he is, something KP would not even consider.
And thus far 1 person has sited Yada, and that was only twice, once to give him credit for the research he did which we have confirmed (a common courtesy) and the other time to cite an analogy that Yada used. Meanwhile all you have is your own opinion stated as facts.
MA wrote:1. Yawheh is not "God's name". It is his TITLE. The name of God is Elohim or El or Eloah. The term Yahweh has nothing to do with whether you are "Jewish" or not. I am not sure why you post that since God divorced the Jews in the OT. Why do you want to be one?
WTF???? This is completely back asswards. Elohim, El and Eloah are titles, titles that Yahowah applies to both himself and to false gods. Yahowah is the name.
Exo 3:13 And Mosheh said to Elohim, “See, when I come to the children of Yisra’ĕl and say to them, ‘
The Elohim of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they say to me, ‘What is His Name?’ what shall I say to them?”
Exo 3:14 And Elohim said to Mosheh, “I am that which I am.”1 And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Yisra’ĕl, ‘I am has sent me to you.’ ”
Exo 3:15 And Elohim said further to Mosheh,
“Thus you are to say to the children of Yisra’ĕl, ‘יהוה Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim of Aḇraham, the Elohim of Yitsḥaq, and the Elohim of Yaʽaqoḇ, has sent me to you. This is My Name forever, and this is My remembrance to all generations.’
Exo 3:16 “Go, and you shall gather the elders of Yisra’ĕl together, and say to them, ‘יהוה Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim of Aḇraham, of Yitsḥaq, and of Yaʽaqoḇ, appeared to me, saying, “I have indeed visited you and seen what is done to you in Mitsrayim;
Notice the THE before Elohim, Ha in Hebrew, it is a definite article meaning that what follows is a title and not a name. Imagine how stupid it would sound if you subbed a name in there. The Michael of you fathers, The John of your fathers, etc. It is a title, which is why it gets used for both Yahowah and false elohim. Or the other way, imagine if Elohiem is a name imagine replacing it with another name, Bob of Yitshaq, and the Drew of Ya'aqob, etc. It is clear as clear can be that Yahowah is a name and Elohiem is a title. Furthermore Yahowah is His Name forever, and this is His remembrance to all generations.
Another PROOF, a concept you seem unfamiliar with:
Isa_42:8 “I am יהוה, that is My Name, and My esteem I do not give to another, nor My praise to idols.
Jer_16:21 “Therefore see, I am causing them to know, this time I cause them to know My hand and My might. And they shall know that My Name is יהוה!”
There is no way for any rational and informed individual to think that Elohim is a name and Yahowah a title. The proper pronunciation of יהוה may be up for debate, but the fact that יהוה is a name is not.
MA wrote:2. The term Yahweh goes further back than Exodus 3:15. That name he used to Moses "eyeh ’asher ’eyeh" is not Yahweh. And I understand this name is very important to the Orthodox Jews as are other things they deem important that are not important.
WRONG. In 3:14 he says "eyeh ’asher ’eyeh" or “I am that which I am.” BUT when one continues to read you find that he goes on to say
“Thus you are to say to the children of Yisra’ĕl, ‘יהוה Elohim of your fathers" Plain and clear as day.
ma wrote:3. When God (Elohim, not elohim) created the heavens and the earth he was not called Yahweh. In Gen 1 the term Yahweh is no where to be found...
And this proves what? You do realize that:
Gen 2:4 These are the births of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that יהוה Elohim made earth and heavens.
And for the record there are no chapter distinctions in the original text, they were arbitrarily added centuries later.
Please show me 1 place where he says I am Elohim, that is my name, or my name is Elohim. As you can see above there are at least 2 places where he says that his name is Yahowah.
MA wrote:4. Elohim became Yahweh Elohim in Gen 2 at the creation of mankind. Yahweh is Elohim's TITLE in his relationship with mankind. Without mankind he is not Yahweh. Otherwise he is just Elohim or El.
This is a perfect example of the logical fallacy Non sequitur. The fact that Yahowah does not appear in the 1st chapter does not lead to it being a title when it does appear. You have to examine the use of the words, and when you do that Yahowah is ALWAYS used as a proper name, and Elohim is used as a title, often with the definite article Ha (the). You never once see Yahowah with the definite article. Elohim is often used of false gods, you never once see Yahowah used of false gods. Yahowah is specifically stated by him to be his name, Elohim is never once stated by him as his name.
Elohim did not become Yahowah, Yahowah is, was and always has been Elohim, with or without man.
A few examples of where Elohim is used in reference to false elohim.
Exo 20:23 ‘You do not make besides Me
mighty ones(elohim) of silver, and you do not make mighty ones of gold for yourselves.
Exo_12:12 ‘And I shall pass through the land of Mitsrayim on that night, and shall smite all the first-born in the land of Mitsrayim, both man and beast. And on all the
mighty ones(elohim) of Mitsrayim I shall execute judgment. I am יהוה.
Exo_15:11 “Who is like You, O יהוה, among the
mighty ones(elohim)? Who is like You, great in set-apartness, awesome in praises, working wonders?
In the 10 Dabar Yahowah tells us that He is our Elohim and we are not to have other elohim
Exo_20:3 “You have no other
mighty ones(elohim) against My face.
Exo_23:13 “And in all that I have said to you take heed. And make no mention of the name of other
mighty ones(elohim), let it not be heard from your mouth.
Here it is clear that elohim is a title, hence the make no mention of the name of other.
Exo_23:24 “Do not bow down to their
mighty ones(elohim), nor serve them, nor do according to their works, but without fail overthrow them and without fail break down their pillars.
I can go on and on and on with several dozen such uses. It is clear to any informed and rational person that elohim is a title, and not a name. But you are unable to rationally process information, so I am sure that you will now restate your position as fact, perhaps with a few insults as to how we just don't get it, or we don't understand what you are saying. What you will not do is actually address anything I have said, or provide any evidence to your position. You won't be able to site me anywhere were Scripture says that Elohim is His name, as I have shown where it says Yahowah is His name. You probably won't even attempt a rational response in any way, because as I said in the other thread you are a true believer and no amount of evidence or reason will ever persuade a true believer.
I cannot believe the amount of time I have had to waste today responding to something so ridiculously obvious as this.