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Offline Hermine Dow  
#1 Posted : Saturday, May 31, 2014 11:54:14 AM(UTC)
Hermine Dow
Joined: 4/13/2013(UTC)
Posts: 193
Location: Rochester,NY

"Moving on to the next curious term, “chadash – renew,” those who have read
An Introduction to God know that the Covenant has not yet been renewed, and
that there is no such thing as a “New Covenant,” much less a “New Testament.” Can you tell me where in ITG this discussion is?

p.5 "At worst, it is derived from the Anglo-Saxon root circe (pronounced with
the hard “ch” sound, rendering “chirch.” Circe was the daughter of Helios—a
pagan sun goddess." Can you give me a source for this info? My World Book dictionary says that church is from the Old English cirice, from Vulgar Latin cyriac from Greek kyriakon from kyrios - master, from kyros - power

p.6 Yahowah established a Covenant on the basis of His relationship with
Abraham. This Covenant was codified in the Towrah, which also details how it
was lived out in the lives of the Yahuwdym, especially as they were freed from
bondage and human oppression.....The “Church”
didn’t replace “Jews” as God’s chosen people, because there is no Scriptural basis
for “church,” and Yahowah remains focused on reconciling His relationship with
Yahuwdym.

Why do you focus on the Yahuwdym/Jews? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to include all the tribes, the Yisraelites?

p.7 but also to perfect us and make us
immortal, to enrich us and to empower us...is not only Yahowah immortal?
Offline StevePaige  
#2 Posted : Monday, August 11, 2014 8:03:20 PM(UTC)
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Joined: 10/11/2011(UTC)
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Location: Summerville, South Carolina

Actually there is a new covenant.

Focusing on the Jews is a problem. Yahshua came for the lost sheep of Israel.

I'll post more later.

Steve
Offline James  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, August 12, 2014 8:05:00 AM(UTC)
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Nowhere in Scripture is a New covenant ever spoken of. In Jermiah Yahowah speaks of a renewal of the covenant with Israel and Yahuwdah, but the only difference between that renewal and the covenant is that Yahowah says he will write the Torah upon their hearts.

Furthemore Yahowah tells us that His one and only, echad, Covenant is for eternal, for all people, all places and all times. The fact is Yahowah speaks of the covenant as singular and says it is eternal.

As for the focus on Yahudym over Yisrailites while Yahudah is a subset of Yisrael the two are often used, in modern times, in place of the other. When I say Jew to someone they think I am talking about the whole of the desendants of Ya'aqob, not just one tribe. In Jeremiah, Yermeyah, Yahowah says that he will renew his covenant with both Yahudah and Yisrael. So while not entierly sure I think when Yada uses Yahudym here is speaking of it in the modern view as the whole of Yisrael, I could be wrong you will have to ask him.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline StevePaige  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:04:23 AM(UTC)
StevePaige
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Location: Summerville, South Carolina

Except for where he states he will make a new covenant and his law will live in our hearts.

And as for the Yahudym/Jews, it is best to distinguish them. Most people do not think of Ephraim or Naphtali when the former is mentioned.

Edited by user Tuesday, August 12, 2014 1:29:25 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Clarification

Offline James  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, August 13, 2014 6:07:29 PM(UTC)
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Steve wrote:
Except for where he states he will make a new covenant and his law will live in our hearts.

You are speaking of Yermeyah.Jeremiah 31:31.
First in context this starts in chapter 30 and ends at the end of Chapter 31...consisting of a dream and interpretation....and when reading it that way there is NO WAY one could take it any other way that it's yet future. So at best you could say that there WILL BE a New Covenant, but this does not equate to their being a New Covenant presently. Also this Covenant will be cut with Yahudah and Yisrael, and as you pointed out the Towrah will be written on our hearts, again this has yet to occur.
Second the word chosen is Chadash. And while chadash CAN mean new, its primary meaning is renew. It is used to speak of the rebuilding and restoring of the temple, of cities etc.
TWOT wrote:
ḥādaš is used in the sense of “repair” or “rebuild” referring to cities (Isa 61:4), the temple (II Chr 24:4, 12), and the altar (II Chr 15:8). It is also used figuratively. Under Samuel the kingdom was renewed at Gilgal (I Sam 11:14). David wanted a right spirit, equivalent to a clean heart, renewed within him (Ps 51:10 [H 12]). The prophet asked for renewal as of old (Lam 5:21). God renews the face of the ground, that is, gives it new life (Ps 104:30), and he renews one’s youth (Ps 103:5).

In certain context it can also mean New. So Context is the key to determining the meaning of the word. In the context of Yermeyah we are told that the only difference between this covenant and the covenant cut with Yisraelites brought out of Egypt is that the Torah would be written on their hearts. Since the Torah contains the Covenant this would suggest a renewing of that covenant with addition of the Towrah being written on their hearts.
Furthermore in the context of Yahowah consistently stating that His Covenant is eternal, for all people, all places and all times. The idea that His covenant was being done away with and a New Covenant would be brought is absurd.
So in the Context of Yermeyah and the whole of Scripture it makes the most sense to render chadash as renewed and not new.
But if you choose to ignore that you still have to deal with the fact pointed out earlier that this is speaking of still future events and therefore as of today there is no New Covenant. Compound that by the fact that when it is renewed it the Torah will be written on hearts instead of parchment and the idea that there is a New Covenant which invalidates, does away with or in any way lessens the Torah of Yahowah is completely idiotic and irrational.

Steve wrote:
And as for the Yahudym/Jews, it is best to distinguish them. Most people do not think of Ephraim or Naphtali when the former is mentioned.

While I agree that they should be distinguished for clarities sake, I doubt 1 in a million people think of Ephraim or Naphtali when you speak of Yisrael/Israel. The average person today lumps all the tribes into one group Jews/Israelites.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
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