DAJSTILL, I'm sure that this posting "sounds" a little harsh, sarcastic and smarmy. For that I apologize and must confess that I am harsh, sarcastic and smarmy. Please know that I do not want to be harsh or smarmy.
(I like sarcastic, though!)
dajstill wrote:If Yahshua said not to call anyone "Rabbi" and someone is being called "Rabbi" - that seems to be going against the teachings of Yahshua
I disagree with this hyper-literalist approach. See my quotation from J. Jordan, above.
Please note that I usually use the word "rabbi" rather than the word "Rabbi". There is a difference.
I call all of my friends who are employed at messianic synagogs as rabbi's by their "Christian" names. (Delicious irony, there!)
(For those of you keeping score at home: "Christian" name is your "First Name", "Surname" is your last name, or family name.)
dajstill wrote: You mention ignoring Paul, but I haven't yet met any Christian or Messianic congregation with an outright rejection of or even a more subtle ignoring of Paul.
There are a few who ignore Mr OfTarsus, and a few who vocally preach against him. To be fair,
most MJ congregations say that Sha'ul has been completely misunderstood.
dajstill wrote: The things is that every Christian/Messianic congregation in the US using a copy of the entire Christian Bible as a main text.
Not true. I have participated in 3 that do not. There are more.
dajstill wrote: On my journey I am learning from a lot of people: Nehemia Gordon... Keith Johnson... Todd Bennett
Me too! I like reading/listening to these guys stuff, I learn a great deal from them. I learn a great deal from Derek, Jack, Akiva, Kevin, Mark and Matt, who all happen to have business cards that say "Rabbi" on them. I don't agree with all that any of them teach, nor do I agree with everything that Yada teaches. (I don't even agree with everything that I teach, sometimes!)
It is ok to disagree with our 'teachers' or 'rabbis'. In the capital-R "Rabbinic" tradition that Yeshua was criticizing, the students did everything the "Master/Rabbi" said. You were not to disagree with them at all! They slavishly copied their "master's" every act. Not Good. This is what Yeshua was saying not to do! He was not saying that you cannot use the title "rabbi" for someone, anymore than He was saying that I cannot call my dad "Father".
Fear not, YY'ers, I am no man's slave. I think for myself and encourage everyone to do the same.
dajstill wrote: I know for me personally, when I start giving titles to people - it changes the nature of the relationship.
Riddle me this: Do you train your children to use the honorific "Mister" or "Missus" when speaking to adults? If so, you are inconsistently applying your hyper-literalist interpretation of Yeshua's "don't call anyone Master/Rabbi" teaching. "Mister" is derived from "Master".
dajstill wrote:In the past, when in doubt I would look to the person of title to provide the deciding vote on what was right and what was truth.
Never a problem for me. When I was a(n active-duty) Marine, my Commanding Officer sent me to go speak to a General on our unit's behalf because I was not intimidated by the stars on his shoulder. The CO was a Captain and I was a Lance Corporal!
I understand that most people do not have this characteristic within them. I teach my children and encourage my friends to be respectful to all people, but verify everything they say and watch what they do. No "sheeple" here, thank you very much!
dajstill wrote:Thanks for sharing what you all discussed at your church.
AAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHHHKKKKKKK! ;-)
We are a Torah-Observant-Non-Religious-Congregation.
Not a
church! (I know you knew that!)
dajstill wrote:I... So many more people read these boards than post and for 99% of those folks - they are going to have to leave all religious affiliations. It can be a lonely road. Its hard and I am sure the enemy would love to sway them back into bondage by telling them to keep looking and keep trying to find a "good church". It just isn't going to happen for 99% of us,
I am part of the 1%.
There is no such thing as a 'good church'.
dajstill wrote:Its just that when you post a "Rabbi says" message....
I NEVER say "Rabbi says..." ! Even when I was a christian, I never said "Pastor says...". Indeed, my best friend was slowly cured of using that syntax by my continual threats to 'punch him in the mouth' whenever he starts a sentence that way. YOU GUYS are reading that into my writings.
I think that it is legitimate to use the syntax "The rabbi says..." as a euphemism for "The leader of our group of Torah observant, non-religous congregation of followers of Yeshua says..."
The fact is that I NEVER say "Rabbi says..." (at least I hope so. If I
mistakenly typed that, then it needs to be edited.)
dajstill wrote: Its not that I can't receive from anyone, just that even a Rabbi must come to me as nothing but "Bob" or I can't even greet him (so says 2 John anyway - LOL).
Like I said, I call all my "Rabbi" friends by their "Christian" name, they would want you to do the same.
DAJSTILL, I'm sure that this posting "sounds" a little harsh, sarcastic and smarmy. For that I apologize and must confess that I am harsh, sarcastic and smarmy. Please know that I do not want to be harsh or smarmy.
(I like sarcastic, though!)