I'd like to see in scripture, specifically, where it says once a spirit (we are a spirit, we possess a soul, and we live in a body as noted in 1 Thessalonians 5:23) is created...it's possible for it to cease to exist.

And, Rob Bell is teaching universalism that basically means no matter what you do (choosing to reject Jesus as Lord and Savior is A-OK and matters not)...you will eventually be saved and will live with God for all eternity....which is obviously not what Jesus taught.

Aside from quoting Paul ;^) and calling Yahowsha Jesus...
the scriptures primarily speak of "cease to exist". Perish, burned up, to the grave (She'ol), etc means just that. Way different than eternal separation.

http://www.yadayahweh.co...ing_Astray_Thanatos.YHWH

but hey, the heaven/hell only doctrine works well for religious clerics for controlling the masses and plundering them.

KMR, true to your religiosity you expect to see proof in a verse. You want proof in a verse because that is how you have learned your christianity. A verse, one at a time, out of context, away from detractors.

In truth the proof does exist in a verse, but will you be able to see it. You have already shown ignorance by stating men are created as spirit. How can you understand a verse if you are filled with such ignorance of men. How can you understand a verse if you do not understand the context of the Word of YHWH.

James has provided a verse, does that convince you? Cgb has provided many verses, with commentary, have you read them? My guess is you will be like most christians who find this forum; you take a few pot shots at something and run away, fearful that if you stay too long you may actually question your “belief”.

I challenge you to be different. I challenge you to read the Word of YHWH like you have never read it before, the amplified text of Yada Yahweh is unique and it reveals YHWH's voice in His Scripture. Yada Yahweh is not perfect. But with the amplification you can judge the translation as you read. I am not asking you to drink any kool-aid.

You owe it to yourself to test your christianity in the fire. If it is true it will temper, if it is not it will melt away. Either way you will be changed for the better.

Plus if you stick around you can show me in scripture, specifically, where it says to observe christmas, lent, easter and especially sunday.

God is a Spirit and He created man in His image.... got anything proving God is not a Spirit and He did not replicate Himself when He created mankind....???





If this is true...then you also along with this claim that Jesus was wrong in commanding the Great Commission to go out and preach the gospel, right?

This mean you reject His teachings on this point...I mean, if those that aren't born-again are just going to cease to exist, then why would Jesus make a stupid command to go out and tell everyone Salvation thru Jesus is available???

Sure makes Jesus look like a complete idiot!

KM, your ignorance gives me a head ache. You should know that everyone here has heard your point of view before, we have all had it forced down our throats our entire life, and we have all examined it and rejected it. So if your goal is just to state your point of view, the same old tired religious BS we have all heard, then leave. If you are interested in dialoging, then read the books this forum is linked to, educate yourself on what our perspective is, and what our reasoning for that perspective is, then challenge us.



God it Spirit that is correct. BUT, he did not say he created man identical to Him, the text says that he created man in His image and His likeness. The Nesamah is what makes us in God’s likeness, and in His image. It is the one thing that separates us from animals. How we use that nesamah determines if we will become even more like Yahowah and be born of His Spirit.


Well aside from the fact that there was no one named Jesus that lived in the first century, His name was Yahowsha (there was no J in ANY language of the time especially Hebrew). And there is no gospel, the word used is Euangellion, the healing and beneficial message.
But those glaring mistakes aside, nothing in the quote you cited of mine would even come close to suggesting that I don’t think that Yahowsha told us to go and spread and teach the healing and beneficial message. The difference is I don’t think God wants us to scare people into a relationship with Him. The healing and beneficial message that we are to spread is the Towrah, and its fulfillment. We are to teach this message so that people will come to Know Yahowah. The church and religious types love heaven and hell because they are all about converts, and it doesn’t matter why someone converts just that they do, and hell makes one heck of stick to threaten people with. God is not interested in people that only come to Him to avoid hell, what kind of relationship is that. He is interested in close, personal, familial relationships, and you can’t get that with the carrot and stick of heaven and hell.


Well one it wasn’t a commandment, but how does the fact that they aren’t going to hell make bringing people to God moot. This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Christians look at God in such negative terms, I just can’t understand it. God wants us to spread the message so that His family would grow, not because He wants to keep people out of hell.
Stop and think for a minute, turn your religious mind off for ten seconds and think about this. If everyone who is not born again, to use your term (born from above is Yah’s) then that means that by default everyone goes to hell. Do you not realize that a God that says love me or be tortured for eternity in hell is sadistic? According to your logic a baby that dies at 2wks old is burning in hell because it wasn’t born again. The fact of the matter is the heaven/hell paradigm is coercion, it’s a carrot and stick approach. For Free will to exist the third option is necessary.


No it makes you look like ignorant.


It’s backed up throughout Scripture if you read it with an open mind, and not a religious mind. The problem is you have been conditioned to think in religious terms so much that you overlook the glaring mistakes in your theology. Volumes are dedicated to this topic in the books, and on the forum, I am not going to reproduce it here.

Take a look at what was written in the original language that this was written in and you will find that your religious view is not supported. The Greek word mistranslated damned here actually means separated. Thanks for pointing out a perfect reason we shouldn’t trust English translations.

We trust Yahowsha Ha Ma’esayah, in so far as what we read has been translated properly, and transmitted properly.
Have you ever taken the time to study the transmission of the “New Testament” text? If you were to spend 2 hours studying this you would understand that no one in the first century viewed it as Scripture, and therefore felt fine editing it as they saw fit, to harmonize the different account, to make accounts more complete, etc. There entire sections you will find in your English translation that aren’t in any manuscript prior to the 4th and 5th century, and the manuscripts suggest that they were never there.
To compound that you have to take in to account that Yahowsha did not speak Greek, he spoke Hebrew and Aramaic. So since the only early text we have of what he said is in Greek, we are already dealing with a translation of what he said, and no language translates word for word from one language to another. So your English translation is 4 to 5 languages removed from what he actually said.

It’s only straight forward because it was translated by religious individuals who were trying to confirm their ideas. When it is translated properly, as separated, then it does not confirm the religious view.
Again your view makes God sadistic. Not to mention under your view Hitler, his victims and Muhammad all share the same fate.

No, one must earn the penalty of hell, it is not an automatic. For there to be free will there must be the ability to make a choice without fear of punishment. God does not punish those who do not accept His covenant, but He also does not force them into it. I don’t know why this idea is so hard for religious people to accept.

No it is not my position; you don’t know our position because you have not bothered to take the time to read anything at this website before engaging.
The reason we stress this point, by the way it is not the only thing we talk about, this thread is dedicated to it but there is much more here than this, but the reason we stress it is because the Christian religious view of this drives thinking people away from Yahowah. Speaking as a former agnostic this was one of the biggest issues that kept me away. I could not accept it because it is an unjust system, and the system a sadistic god. Many many people have reject Scripture because the religious promote this view, which is not God’s view of it.
The problem is the religious read Scripture with the preconceived notions of their religion, rather than reading Scripture and letting it shape your understanding.

Talking with a filipino guy, looked more like a boy but served the US in its navy and was (released) in the late 90's after serving 4yrs and as I assumed, and still more than likely is, a christian since he responded with the jc stuff over and over, but I let that slide after warning him that no one by that name has ever existed, and that name should be easily refuted by a serious seeker.
I just wanted to let him know that, Father through His covenant has a plan that religion ignores, and that plan shows us how He saves us from ourselves and the deception wrought on us through religion and all the politics associated with it and gov't, but Willy, he could talk 90mph, and I think I understood maybe 2 out of 5 words he was rambling on about, but none the less I got my point across to Him about a loving Creator that wants us to dis-inherit all the lies and come to expose them outright, but first, learn of His Festivals and in those many answers are found to our salvation.
Well Willy, he has what he felt as a problem with ogling women. I just told him to stop and save it. I didn't want to know what He views as a sin. His sin is btw him and the Savior once He acknowledges who He is, but Willy can't shut his trap about his view of himself and I had to let him know that what he sees as his view of what he deems a problem, is just that, his view.
My wife often see's me talking with ppl and laughs at how much I talk b/c I can dominate a conversation, but she saw Willys rambling and felt sorry for me, but I told her Willy got what I was saying to him even if he tried dominating the exchange. I'll see him again soon, since I have work from him to do, and then I'll have my direction set this time around. Poor Willy, he thinks his sins will condemn him to hell and must confess them out in the open. He's living a myth when he doesn't remove that stain of religion. It sets their coarse for them and many run around with guilt. What a life that must be to feel like you are judged already and by acknowledging them, it releases you somewhat. If only they would just open their eyes to scripture.
He let me know he holds 6 degrees of some form of martial arts, and as little as he is, I could tell he was a serious minded person about that so I didn't even question him on it, b/c it does take discipline. But next time, I'll be ready for him...I'm going to whip him but good. Next time around he's going to shut his pie trap and listen.
Funny thing too, a few customers before him was a vietnamese fella that looked just like those ruthless colonels that take revenge out on soldiers in the Chuck Norris movies. I laughed and told him he reminded me of some movie star. I just didn't tell him which one. His voice so harsh and accent so thick it just cracked me up. When he walked up I was into a conversation with a customer leaving and told the vietnamese fella that this guy leaving wants you and I to divvy up more in taxes...I don't want to say what his response was, b/c he went to cussing up a storm, but he was right and the other customer left a little disheartened that I just shouted that out to the other guy, as soon as he was walking up, that, "you and I don't pay this gov't enough already and this guy thinks we should pay more."
Well I just wanted to write about my last Friday. My sons think their dad's going to really upset someone to the point of fist a cuffs. I hope not b/c I do love exposing weaknesses...in my Fathers name!!! Verbal blows are easy to overcome with truth, but to get physical, I myself have not resolved it clearly as of yet.
I had a guy spitting on me just b/c he was in my face cussing me out for telling him the truth about his country, the US. I let that slide and glad my son Josh didn't see him or else I would have been removing Josh from him. He's always eyeing me to see that I stay out of trouble and I tell him to go on about his work and don't mind the, old man. He'll be just fine. But too, I realise the day is fast approaching when the slightest of opposition to gov't or religion will set the un(rightous) off.

So has anyone heard back from KM Richards since these August 31 posts?

FWIW, I often feel sympathetic towards religious people we share even some aspects of from YY. There is so much to take in to understand where he/we are coming from in contrast to Christianity or Judaism that I wonder how daunting the leap is to ponder and how outside people's comfort zone of tradition re-examining the Scriptural evidence from a remarkably different perspective truly is?

In my case I first heard Yada on a radio program in 2004 discussing POD which cased me to read his book online, had the sense that he was unconventional in his understanding of either Christianity or Messianic Judaism. That lead to his and Ken's other early works, especially Future History and the revision of that work which became YY. I feel like the journey has given me to more slowly consider each new discovery and examine if the evidence is accurate and if it's reliable. That that end I found QP to be especially daunting, but now recognize that we are faced with a question of whether to accept David / Doud's and Yahowsha's take on the Torah or Paul/Shauw'al's

The YY forum seems like a unique situation from the face to face encounters and other forums I've usually attempted to share what I've learned here, since these people are coming to a place they may reasonably be expected to readily find the more detailed presentations, but my sympathy for the depths they are being exposed to here remains.

Respectfully,

-Theophilus

That's beautiful dajstill. I love all the metaphors and examples in your posts.

As I've read and verified these amplified translations, I note so much is different and has to be un-learn and re-learned. Many times when I immerse myself in Yah's word it's amazing all the other connections the Ruach brings.

It's disgusting how bad most english bible translations are, painting Yah as an overbearing, authoritarian tyrant whenever possible ("Old" testament). Also hiding the meanings behind all the metaphors, and instead seeming pointless ritual. And the heaven/hell only also serves well for religious clerics to control and plunder their victims.

I'm beginning to see even the "animal sacrifice" as more of a family barbeque & party using rich metaphors. As a hunter who even processes his own game, I note that all that was "burned up" is what I throw away as waste because its useless or unhealty to eat (entrals, fat around and the kidneys, legs below the knee joints, etc). I can't wait until all that resumes during the mellinial sabbath and temple (Ezekial), to fully understand.

Here's some cool verses:
(Sorry about ISR 1998 bad translations of obey/commands/laws I don't have amplified available)

Deu 30:10 if you obey the voice of יהוה your Elohim, to guard His commands and His laws which are written in this Book of the Torah, if you turn back to יהוה your Elohim with all your heart and with all your being.
Deu 30:11 “For this command which I am commanding you today, it is not too hard for you, nor is it far off.

Mat 11:28 “Come to Me, all you who labour and are burdened, and I shall give you rest.
Mat 11:29 “Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am meek and humble in heart, and you shall find rest for your beings.
Mat 11:30 “For My yoke is gentle and My burden is light.”

These are interesting take on the "mark"

Deu 6:6 “And these Words which I am commanding you today shall be in your heart,
Deu 6:7 and you shall impress them upon your children, and shall speak of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise up,
Deu 6:8 and shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.

Deu 11:18 ‘And you shall lay up these Words of Mine in your heart and in your being, and shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.

Rev 9:4 And it was said to them that they shall not harm the grass of the earth, or any green matter, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of Elohim upon their foreheads.