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Offline Richard  
#1 Posted : Saturday, January 15, 2011 6:11:07 AM(UTC)
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Brothers and Sisters,

This one has me completely stumped, and I could not find any references to it using this forum's search function.

Reading this chapter this morning with my wife felt like we were reading an RCC hoodoo-voodoo-doodoo ritual or something. "Drink this here potion, and if you've done bad, you're a'gonna get all swole up and yore laig is a'gonna fall offen yer body. If you ain't done nuthin wrong, then ya ain't got nuthin t'worry about." Really? REALLY?!

Has anyone got any idea about this? Is it another case of the translators blowing the whole passage, as they've done with the 3rd general statement of Exodus 20?

I am completely confused by this law of jealousy thing. It just doesn't sound like my Father at all.

Richard
Offline James  
#2 Posted : Saturday, January 15, 2011 7:49:28 AM(UTC)
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I think you may have posted the wrong verse Richard. Numbers 5:5 reads, "And Yahuweh spoke unto Moses saying,"
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline MadDog  
#3 Posted : Saturday, January 15, 2011 9:07:10 AM(UTC)
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Num.5
[11] And Yahweh spake unto Moses, saying,
[12] Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man's wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him,
[13] And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner;
[14] And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled:
[15] Then shall the man bring his wife unto the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her, the tenth part of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil upon it, nor put frankincense thereon; for it is an offering of jealousy, an offering of memorial, bringing iniquity to remembrance.
[16] And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before Yahweh:
[17] And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it into the water:
[18] And the priest shall set the woman before Yahweh, and uncover the woman's head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which is the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse:
[19] And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse:
[20] But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband:
[21] Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, Yahweh make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when Yahweh doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell;
[22] And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen.
[23] And the priest shall write these curses in a book, and he shall blot them out with the bitter water:
[24] And he shall cause the woman to drink the bitter water that causeth the curse: and the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter.
[25] Then the priest shall take the jealousy offering out of the woman's hand, and shall wave the offering before Yahweh, and offer it upon the altar:
[26] And the priest shall take an handful of the offering, even the memorial thereof, and burn it upon the altar, and afterward shall cause the woman to drink the water.
[27] And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people.
[28] And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed.
[29] This is the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled;
[30] Or when the spirit of jealousy cometh upon him, and he be jealous over his wife, and shall set the woman before Yahweh, and the priest shall execute upon her all this law.
[31] Then shall the man be guiltless from iniquity, and this woman shall bear her iniquity.
Offline Richard  
#4 Posted : Saturday, January 15, 2011 9:10:11 AM(UTC)
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James wrote:
I think you may have posted the wrong verse Richard. Numbers 5:5 reads, "And Yahuweh spoke unto Moses saying,"


The "ff" means "and following", which indicates that the reader should continue reading through to the end of the subject matter.
Offline MadDog  
#5 Posted : Saturday, January 15, 2011 9:29:29 AM(UTC)
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As per Ken Power in The Owners Manual:

http://theownersmanual.n...ex_and_Family_Ties.Torah

Quote:
(74)The woman suspected of adultery shall be dealt with as prescribed in the Torah. “This is the law of jealousy, when a wife, while under her husband’s authority, goes astray and defiles herself, or when the spirit of jealousy comes upon a man, and he becomes jealous of his wife; then he shall stand the woman before Yahweh, and the priest shall execute all this law upon her. Then the man shall be free from iniquity, but that woman shall bear her guilt.” (Numbers 5:29-31) The “this” at the beginning of the quoted scripture refers to a lengthy passage that immediately precedes it (Numbers 5:11-28) in which if a husband suspects his wife of cheating on him but has no proof, he is to bring her before the priest, who turns the whole thing over to Yahweh. If she denies wrongdoing, a complicated ritual is performed which is the rough equivalent of saying, “Cross my heart and hope to die,” only for real, because Yahweh’s doing the judging. As a practical matter, this convoluted procedure protects both the husband and the wife from injustice: if the wife is innocent, she can’t be condemned on the suspicions of a jealous and paranoid husband. But if she is guilty, her own words condemn her before God, leaving the husband “free from iniquity.”

In Future History, Chapter 3, I describe how this “Law of Jealousy” demonstrated the spiritual adultery of both Israel and the Church in the milestone year of 1033. Yahweh describes himself as a “jealous God.” He refuses to share our affections with other “gods,” whether serious idols or frivolous pursuits. If we are guilty of unfaithfulness toward Him, it will do us no good to deny it, swearing our innocence on the proverbial “stack of Bibles,” for He knows the truth even before we do. The only thing we can do is to fall on His mercy, repent, and beg His forgiveness. Unfaithful Israel has not done this—yet. But they will, and a remnant of them will be restored to a place of honor. A somewhat different destiny awaits the Church.


I think the part of literally and physically bringing her to Yahweh to be judged is the point. It's not voodoo if Yahweh is the judge, jury, and executioner. I think it sounds like a superstitious ghost story to us today seeing as we don't have a priest, a temple, the Ark of the Covenant, and Yahweh's actual presence.



Offline Richard  
#6 Posted : Saturday, January 15, 2011 1:30:36 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for your answer, MD. I understood the purpose of the law of jealousies. What puzzles me is the part about the water of bitterness causing her belly to swell and her thigh to rot. I've looked into the Hebrew words used, and they seem to be translated accurately. I'm just having some difficulty visualizing what was really going to happen to the wife if she was guilty. My wife says the thigh part sounds like leprosy.
Offline MadDog  
#7 Posted : Saturday, January 15, 2011 1:52:05 PM(UTC)
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Quote:
Gen.32
[24] And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
[25] And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
[26] And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
[27] And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
[28] And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed
[29] And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
[30] And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
[31] And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh.
[32] Therefore the children of Israel eat not of the sinew which shrank, which is upon the hollow of the thigh, unto this day: because he touched the hollow of Jacob's thigh in the sinew that shrank.


For what it's worth. This is still true today. I guess Yahweh just doesn't like thighs for some reason or it might be symbolic so people remember back to Jacob being named Israel and the swelling belly indicates infertility or bad seed. I don't know, I guess I'm just shooting from the hip, har, har :)

Quote:
Rev.17
[1] And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
[2] With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
[3] So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
[4] And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
[5] And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
[6] And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Yashua: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
[7] And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
[8] The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
[9] And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
[10] And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
[11] And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
[12] And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
[13] These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
[14] These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
[15] And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
[16] And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
[17] For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
[18] And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.


Water is symbolic for goyim or gentils and infidelity and adultery towards Yahweh is the essense of the Whore of Babylon. The thigh is symbolic for Jacob/Israel and bitter water, adultery, and a swelled up womb is symbolic for unclean children of whoredom. Lots and lots of symbolism here.

Edited by user Saturday, January 15, 2011 8:29:13 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline MadDog  
#8 Posted : Saturday, January 15, 2011 7:59:38 PM(UTC)
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flintface wrote:
What puzzles me is the part about the water of bitterness causing her belly to swell and her thigh to rot. I've looked into the Hebrew words used, and they seem to be translated accurately. I'm just having some difficulty visualizing what was really going to happen to the wife if she was guilty. My wife says the thigh part sounds like leprosy.


I get what you mean. The words as translated appear accurate (I guess), but I'm not so sure. For instance this verse:

Quote:
Num.5
[14] And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled:


If Yahweh is a jealous God/husband and the wife is Israel, I find it hard to believe that Yahweh is jealous OF Israel instead of FOR Israel.

Therefore I believe that this translation is in error.

What triggered this was (as funny as it may sound) an Oprah Winfrey interview where she misquoted scritpure to say that as a "christian" that God was jealous OF her; when scripture never states that.

Yahweh IS a jealous God but not because Oprah Winfrey is rich and successful, but because he desires and demands an exclusive and intimate relationship with his children and wife.
Offline Richard  
#9 Posted : Sunday, January 16, 2011 2:56:50 AM(UTC)
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MadDog wrote:
Yahweh IS a jealous God but not because Oprah Winfrey is rich and successful, but because he desires and demands an exclusive and intimate relationship with his children and wife.


That just about covers it, I reckon. Thanks, MD.
Offline bigritchie  
#10 Posted : Sunday, January 16, 2011 7:10:31 AM(UTC)
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I would agree with what Maddog said


"I think the part of literally and physically bringing her to Yahweh to be judged is the point. It's not voodoo if Yahweh is the judge, jury, and executioner. I think it sounds like a superstitious ghost story to us today seeing as we don't have a priest, a temple, the Ark of the Covenant, and Yahweh's actual presence."

I do not think that is a law we could literally follow today, because there is no temple, no ark, etc etc.

When we look at it back in that times perspective when the Creator himself made that judgment at the temple I think it makes more sense.
Offline Mike  
#11 Posted : Monday, January 17, 2011 2:08:29 PM(UTC)
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Richard, I hope that this helps. BTW, I like your web site.

Numbers 5 infidelity test:

From YY Book 2: Called out Assemblies.

now…“On that day there shall be (hayah) a source (maqor – directed flow of fluid, a path of water, a
fountain or spring) opened (patah – of unabated freedom) for the household (bayit – family, house, and temple) of David (dawid – love) and the inhabitants
of (yasab – those who are established by) Yarusalayim (meaning, the source of restoration and renewal) concerning (la) the offer to purify and cleanse sin
(hatta’t – atonement for iniquity which leads to reconciliation) and corruption (niddah – impurity and defilement, seduction and straying).” (ZakarYah /
Zechariah 13:1)

Cleansing and living waters represent one of seven tangible symbols Yahweh uses to convey His nature, and most especially, His Set Apart Spirit. A spring of
acceptance will pour out from Jerusalem, both literally and figuratively. The final word in the passage, niddah, speaks specifically of the “impurity of
a woman, of her being seduced into infidelity.” It also conveys “a detestable pollution which causes those poisoned thereby to become banished outcasts who
are led astray.” With that in mind, I think that there may more to the symbolism of this spring.

In Numbers 5:11-31, Yahweh delineated a procedure for determining the guilt or innocence of a person suspected of infidelity. The jealous husband was to bring
the potentially wayward wife before a priest with an offering of barley meal (indicative of saved souls), but without pouring olive oil (metaphorical of the Set
Apart Spirit) upon it or adding frankincense (a symbol of purity through atoning sacrifice). “The priest shall take set-apart and purifying water in an earthen vessel,
and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water.” Of this Yahweh said: “It is a grain offering for jealousy, an offering for
remembering, for bringing iniquity to mind.” She would then drink the water. If she was guilty, she would get sick, but if she were innocent, she would be blessed
with children. So what does this have to do with this purifying spring gushing forth upon Yahshua’s return on the Day of Reconciliations in 2033?

To answer that question, you need to know three things. First, the teaching in Numbers 5 was not conveyed because Yahweh wants you to get some temple dust
and hunt down a Levite if you suspect your wife of infidelity. It’s prophetic, which is why God refers to it twice as a remembrance. He’s saying, if the waters
coming from under the temple become poisonous, I’m accusing Jews specifically, and mankind generally, of infidelity.


Second, infidelity is what caused Yahweh to divorce Himself from Jews as documented by Hosea in around 700 BCE. When it comes to monogamy in the
relationship and faithfulness, Yahweh isn’t into sharing. It is why the Numbers instruction was called an “offering for jealousy.” I devoted many chapters to this
act of infidelity and resulting separation.

Third, in 1033, a great earthquake shook Jerusalem. The Spring of Gihon (the sole source of water for the old city, located a stone’s throw from the temple
mount) turned septic and poisonous—a condition that persisted for forty years. This was taken as a sign of infidelity by the Rabbis at the Jerusalem Academy, so
they left town and set up shop in Damascus. The Islamic overlords then raised taxes for all non-Muslims, in hopes of finding and funding a new source of water.
And with the water supply being poisoned by the dust under the tabernacle, the last remaining Jewish farmers were exiled from Jerusalem. Moreover, with
masses of Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Christians pouring into Jerusalem to celebrate the thousand-year anniversary of the Passion, thousands were poisoned.


While we can easily surmise from Scripture, that Yahshua will return on the Day of Reconciliations in 2033, because it is Yahweh’s year 6,000, and that the
Millennial Sabbath—years 6000-7000 will commence on the Miqra’ of Tabernacles of that year, what about 1033? I think the poisoning of Jerusalem’s
spring, per the Numbers 5 test for infidelity, represents the seminal event marking that year from Yahweh’s perspective. In 1033, Yahweh, the jealous Husband of
Israel, and Yahshua, the Bridegroom of the wayward ekklesia/called out assembly, put us to the Numbers 5 test, and we were found unfaithful. This
condition will be cured by the pouring out of His Spirit on the Day of Reconciliations in 2033.

In Hosea, Yahweh divorced the Chosen People. In Revelation, He said that the Roman Catholic Church, circa 1033, would marry the Whore of Babylon—
committing the ultimate act of infidelity. “To the messenger of the called out in Thyatira [daughter of the whirlwind] write, ‘…I hold some things against you,
because you permitted and tolerated (pardoned as part of a divorce and yielded to) that woman (whom you betrothed and married), Jezebel (Iezabel, a
transliteration of the Hebrew ‘Yzebel), who calls herself (affirms of herself, maintains and teaches that she is) a prophet (female fortuneteller who claims to
be able to predict the future and reveal oracles by inspiration), whose teachings (dogma and traditions) seduce and deceive, leading many astray (coercing them
into error) so that My servants practice idolatry leading to an indulgence in immorality and infidelity (committing prostitution with whores) and eating
things sacrificed to idols [consumption of the circular Eucharist wafer in the presence of a sunburst icon, crucifix, and Madonna carvings].” (Revelation 2:20-
21) I detail the history of Jezebel in the God Damn Religion chapter named in her honor.

In the timeline of the seven prophetic letters depicting the future history of the “church,” the infidelity of Thyatira aligns perfectly with 1033. In that light we
continue to read: “And I gave her time to think differently (reconsider, feel compunction, and change her mind) about her adultery and perversion
(idolatry and infidelity), and she did not reconsider. Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed along with those who commit adultery with her, and into the great
pressing together (squashing them under massive pressure that causes distress, affliction, and tribulation) unless they change their mind and amend their
undertakings. I will separate them, ending their life, extinguishing her offspring in the separation of death. And all the ekklesia/called-out shall
know (shall learn and understand) that I Am He who searches and examines hearts (man’s inner nature; thoughts and desires). And I will give to each and
every one of you according to that which you produce.” (Revelation 2:21-23)

This is the judgment discussed earlier in Zechariah. Fortunately, not everyone in Thyatira failed the Numbers 5 infidelity test.
“Now to you I say, and to the rest (who remain) in Thyatira, who do not hold (possess or regard) this doctrine or teaching (explanation often delivered by a
religious establishment) who do not know (who are not acquainted with, known by, or have a relationship with) the depths and essence (the inscrutable ways and
stratagem) of Satanas/the Adversary, his character, his circumstance, his way (which proceeds from him) and his words (sayings, affirmations, advice,
doctrine, and directions), I will place upon you no other heavy and serious task.” (Revelation 2:24)
Offline Richard  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, January 18, 2011 3:45:30 AM(UTC)
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Thank you, Mike. That was indeed helpful. SInce I have downloaded the entire "Yada Yahweh" series as individual PDF chapters, I can reread everything you quoted with my PDF reading application. I have not yet finished the chapters on the Called-Out Assemblies, so I really appreciate your bringing this treasure of information to my attention.

:-D

Richard
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