 Joined: 8/7/2007(UTC)
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Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. So the word used here for *behead* is NOT the same word used in the rest of the Brit for behead. How about some of you with new Logos programs see if you can figger it out.... Will give clues if necessary lol Ruchamah |
If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance. |
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Joined: 8/7/2007(UTC)
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Location: TN
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hey Swalchy!
You did a great job...EXCEPT:
In Rev 20:4 the word used is not pelekus...but PEPELEKUS (you hafta look at the actual greek text, not just the strong number).
Good luck!
Ruchamah
PS Where is this word used in the Septuagint? (actually, you will only find *pelekus* in the Sept) |
If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance. |
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Joined: 8/7/2007(UTC)
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Location: TN
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ok Swalchy...yer qwite the scholar! Great job!
Now, since we already have a perfectly good word for *behead* in the New Testament, what do u think John meant by using THIS particular word, based on its uses in the Sept?
Looking forward to your reply!
Ruchamah |
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 Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
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Location: Palmyra, VA
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A wild guess: All the NC instances of "beheaded" except for Rev 20:4 describe the execution of John the Baptist by Herod. The word there (apokephalizo) denotes "a separation of a part from the whole" (apo), that part being the "head" (kaphale), which metaphorically denotes "anything supreme, chief, or prominent." (Strong's) I think we are being given a hint as to satan's agenda in pushing for John's demise. By slaying the Messiah's forerunner, the adversary hoped to derail the ministry of the Messiah Himself---the "head" of John, in other words, was in reality Yahshua Himself. It didn't work, of course.
Pelekizo, however, used only in Revelation 20:4, is, as Swalchy noted, derived from the word for axe, thus stressing the means by which the martyrs lost their heads. If my timeline is correct, satan is thrown out of heaven sometime around the midpoint of the Tribulation, after which time the Antichrist is given carte blanche over the earth for 42 months---the same period of time in which these beheadings are taking place. In other words, satan has no illusions at this point about cutting off the Head (Yahshua) by cutting of the heads of His followers. He's merely showing his true, murderous colors.
Like I said, a wild guess.
kp
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Joined: 8/7/2007(UTC)
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I think it is a fair guess, KP, but, imo, pepelekismenon or πεπελεκισμενων, if u have greek font, is NOT about beheading at all. In the gospels, Yeshua says that Abraham Isaac and jacob will be in the Kingdom and none of them were beheaded. Let me post passages for reference:
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Mat 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
I think the key to understanding what John is saying comes from the way the word was used passages in the Septuagint.
Shalom,
Ruchamah
PS maybe *lively stones* could help us understand better |
If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance. |
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Joined: 8/7/2007(UTC)
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Thanks for the reply Swalchy:
I am not familiar with the letter from Yermeyahu, so cant speak to that, but apparently the pelekus was used to quarry stones for the building of the Temple, yes?
It was also used to cut down trees.
In Scripture, ie Romans 11 and 1 Peter 2, believers are referred to both as trees as well as *stones of a spiritual house* .
And since Abraham Isaac and Jacob were NOT beheaded but WILL be in the Kingdom, maybe this word does NOT mean behead at all?
Can u see my point here?
Ruchamah |
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 Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,470  Location: England Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
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Ruchamah wrote:Thanks for the reply Swalchy:
I am not familiar with the letter from Yermeyahu, so cant speak to that, but apparently the pelekus was used to quarry stones for the building of the Temple, yes?
It was also used to cut down trees.
In Scripture, ie Romans 11 and 1 Peter 2, believers are referred to both as trees as well as *stones of a spiritual house* .
And since Abraham Isaac and Jacob were NOT beheaded but WILL be in the Kingdom, maybe this word does NOT mean behead at all?
Can u see my point here?
Ruchamah Or maybe it just means that followers in the trib who are martyred, because they stuck to Yahweh and not the world will be part of the kingdom? |
Signature Updated! Woo that was old... |
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Joined: 8/7/2007(UTC)
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So Swalchy..that would mean Abraham Isaac and Jacob would NOT be in the Kingdom? |
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