Is the Ruach Qodesh actually active in individuals lives?
Leading and directing and teaching - guiding into Truth - empowering Yah's children?

Or is this concept a christian religious myth?

Observationally I have to say She isn't

Just look at YY
Both the co-authors (Yada and Ken) assert that they are led by Yah - but many of their conclusions are diametrically opposed to each other (and this can create confusion in those seeking Truth)
Both can't be correct - where is the Ruach Qodesh in this???

Is it just religious baggage that expectation Yahuweh will be active and involved in the lives of those who Yada Him?
That His Set-Apart Spirit doesn't lead us into Truth and understanding as we read Scripture - or doesn't even lead us to discern WHAT is His inspired word


On the forum you can see a shortness displayed when people disagree or when one's position/belief/posting is questioned or challenged
That the Ruach Qodesh doesn't fill us with power to overcome the world, the adversary, or our flesh - doesn't shape and mold us

Maybe Yahuweh isn't close and personal as we desire - but it is a distant, observational relationship He maintains

Maybe what we "discern" as "the leading of The Spirit" is just our own mind & emotions at work and we use the "the leading of The Spirit" as justification to KNOW we are right - and the others are wrong

How are we to firmly stand when there isn't even agreement as to what is right or wrong within the leadership of just this 1 site???

Are we to just carve out our own little rock to stand on floating in this stormy sea of "what is Truth" and hope we don't get capsized??

I think maybe the issue is resolved if we realize that the Spirit makes us alive; She doesn't necessarily make us right. I have two brothers. The three of us are nothing alike, though we have the same father and the same mother. In the same way, being led by Yahweh's Spirit doesn't necessarily imply that we'll be clones of each other or share the same degree of spiritual enlightenment. We're all given different gifts, different abilities, and different jobs to do. Beyond that, some of us do our jobs well and some don't (or put in terms germane to family relationships, some of us brothers listen to Mom more closely than the others do). What we share, what we have in common, is love, whether or not we agree with each other on every little thing.

kp

Interestingly, we have all arrived here at the same point, with some 98% of our views held in common, we are overwhealmed by what we share, even if we are irritated by our tiny differences.

All of us are here because we have rejected mainstream religion, but instead of becoming atheists, like the non thinkers, we look out the window and see the ample evidence of a creator, and we look for TRUTH.

And on the whole, we very quickly find the main truths that bring us together on a forum like this.

You may want to check out www.bibletruth.cc to see how mother is guiding others, totally independantly of YY.....

I like KP's example of the brothers. mine think that I am a religious nutter, but then they chose the religion of socialist humanism because their judgement on religion is defective (maybe they got the other bit more accurately) ;-)

Right. The whole "the Spirit told me" thing is fraught with peril, because folks forget (or ignore) the admonition of John: "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error." (I John 4:1-6 ESV)

Yahweh's Ruach Qodesh isn't the only spirit who can sound convincing to someone who is willing to take the scriptures like a smorgasbord---"a little of this and a lot of that, and I'll leave that stuff alone 'cause it tastes funny to me."

kp

Shabbat Shalom,

"Love Yahweh... and love each other." This basically sums up the lives of those drawn by the Ruach Qodesh. Not one of us has all knowledge of salvation, but it is not necessary to understand ALL of Scripture to be saved. We need to be guided by what is Truth, and our constant desire to seek Truth in Yahweh's name is the mark of His Spirit.

Those who say that they are guided by the spirit but do not even want to understand Torah -- not even all of it but just the 10 Commandments -- have a different agenda and in my opinion, should be encouraged to seek Truth. On our part, we have to stand up to their scrutiny by loving Yahweh and each other. We have to be ready examples with our lives, and responsive with words when needed.

Each of us here are different on so many levels. I am no saint and am still trying to get rid of bad habits that are not consonant with His Word, but I fail miserably every now and then. I can only take refuge that He came to save us sinners, and I recognise that I am a sinner because I now understand Torah. Those who do not understand Torah do not realise HOW they sin and fail to appreciate the real meaning of The Sacrifice and are still trying to achieve salvation by themselves through "good works" instead of trying to keep Torah.

At the end of time they shall be judged according to their works, but in all honesty, I do not know what their destiny will be as Yahweh is indeed merciful and gracious. What I do know is that those who are called but not chosen will not be able to serve with Him for the first thousand years beginning in 2033.

What I want for now is what Yahushua asked us to do -- seek Yahweh with all our heart, our minds and our soul and to be able to live together with those whom He has called out. It may not happen at this time as we are all sprinkled over the world -- just as salt is sprinkled over a tasty dish -- because we may have to play a role in our part of the world or just to our immediate family members and friends.

And yet we are to "come out of this world" especially in the light of what we know about the future. Sometimes I feel like that means I am to leave this place and move elsewhere, but then again who shall accomplish the task of spreading His Word here? Isn't that my job, to be a witness here? At the end of it, I think not, as He already provides plenty of opportunity for those He called, those who can really seek Him, and even then He shall not choose all of whom He called because they do not respond properly.

Let's be honest, there are countless millions whom He has not called -- from the past to the future -- and we know that they have not been called because they have not received Scripture nor His Spirit, but how He deals with them is not my worry! What is challenging enough is how I live according to His Word. That is my Work -- to continue to seek Him out as best as I can and live according to His Word.

So those who claim to be directed or inspired by God's Holy Spirit to do this or that, I always ask if they are following the 10 Commandments first. If they do not, nor wish to understand it better, then I think it is a lot easier to weigh their words or opinions, no matter how scholastic or spiritual they profess to be.

As for us drawn to this place, I can only wish that we can meet and lean on each other more as we let the Ruach Qodesh guide us in our lives. We have our work cut out for us here now -- with all our diverse backgrounds, states of mental, emotional, sprititual maturity -- and that is challenging enough as it is without having to deal with the rest of the world. And all of us know that each person within a family is different in so many ways. If we are all to be completely alike, then Yahweh may as well make clones instead of creating this Family. So in spite of all our differences, WE ARE FAMILY, Mispocha haQodesh!

Looking back, I definitely see God's hand in my life. But I'm not "filled with the Spirit" in *the same way* that some of my churchy friends claim to be.

I talked about this recently with an evangelical friend. Every time someone tells him "the Spirit told me", he gets out a pen, asks them to speak very slowly, and writes down every word, word for word. When they ask why, he says, "because if what you're telling me came from the Spirit, it's scripture, and I don't want to miss any."

This usually gets the point across, but people sometimes miss the sarcasm. He's right, that's how seriously we should take this. I wonder if this is what's referred to by Yahshua as "blaspheming the Spirit"?

Maybe not, but it certainly falls in this category:
Jeremiah 23: 16-40

Bottom line, I believe She works in us by revealing pieces of the puzzle, "opening our minds to understand the Scriptures". But each of us only gets a piece or two (some three) -- we need to fellowship to gain understanding of the others. It's Her way of promoting communion, oneness, relationship. And yes, we have to test, reason, discuss, debate -- and learn how to disagree in love, rebuke each other in lovingkindness, and come to truth together. (Easier said than done, I'm guilty of falling short!)

When he says IM - he means the Private message box which you can find here:

http://yadanews.com/yaf_cp_pm.aspx

Do you think that the protestant rapture teaching (I was never taught the rapture in my catholic childhood) has contributed to this "assumption of having the Spirit because they have received Christ?" The rapture teaching seems to be part of the overall "replacement theology" that has separated the believer from the Torah and from having to deal with the great tribulation. Some call it "easy believism" - it seems a sort of escapism.

The question has been asked elsewhere, but it would be helpful to hear what others know of the rapture teaching. Especially in light of all our Paul discussions, do we find the protestant rapture teaching anywhere else in Scripture? How do we anchor the protestant rapture with the entire body of Scripture?

I don't mean to move off Walt's question, but it seems to me that replacement theology - of which the rapture is a huge part - has contributed to the non-Spirit-filled existence of many who have "received Christ."

Please forgive me but I'm not quite sure if what I'm reading here is supposed to be taken as sarcasm or not.

Regardless, let me clarify: it's pretty obvious that forms of replacement theology (using the broad definition that says the church has completely replaced Israel) began soon after Yahshua ascended to the heavens. The early formation of the Catholic Church is one such example of a group of people believing they have replaced Israel. Also, after having discussed doctrines with numerous people from numerous church denominations, including Protestant (with Evangelical being an offshoot), it's quite obvious that replacement theology affects the way people view the nature of the Spirit and even eschatology. I also attended a Pentecostal/Charismatic church for a number of years therefore I do have personal experience in what they believe about the Church in relation to Israel and the associated promises. Replacement theology is not restricted to one particular interpretation of Scripture but unfortunately is a very broad subject, hence for example why Christians have many varying beliefs in the event called the Rapture.

But I can confess, I am guilty of not consulting Yahweh before writing my previous post.

John 13: 33Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you. 34A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Ok well lets bring this back on topic. If anyone else wants to discuss replacement theology and anything related to it - please start up a new thread.

Topic continues as Walt started:

Is the Ruach Qodesh actually active in individuals?

I disagree.

I think the discussion about why the Spirit of Truth may not be active as we would expect is a logical followup to the original question. As an answer to the question why, the suggestion that a 2nd step, charismatic filling of the Spirit is missing in people's lives is a legitimate discussion. I also think that the the broad range of replacement teaching may be a reason for a lack of the Spirit's activity - and I think this is a legitimate part of this discussion - although maybe not as well articulated.

Replacement teaching creates a division between old and renewed covenant, YHWH and YHWH Saves, national and spiritual Israel, Torah and grace, tribulation and rapture, etc. The Spirit is the Truth - the whole Word/body of Truth. If believers are encouraged to acknowledge only part of the Truth, they don't have the whole Spirit of Truth.

It is my understanding that being filled with the Spirit may be evidenced sometimes through charismatic gifts, but will always be evidenced through truth and most importantly, love.

Sorry for any poor communication on my part.

Yes, this makes a lot of sense. We each have bits of the puzzle. Thanks. I now have a slightly clearer picture.

Thank you Walt for starting this thread!

This is the only thread along these lines that I've found on this forum, and I am particularly excited to participate in discussing the topic you introduced (which means I may ramble and rant and generally carry on for much longer than I could get away with in a normal non-online conversation -- you've all been warned!).

Here's my response to this first part of your post. In my experience...

(1) Yes, the Ruach Qodesh is actually active in individuals' lives.
Yes, leading and directing and teaching them.
Yes, guiding them into Truth.
Yes, empowering Yah's children.

Maybe not very many people total, but it is happening in the world today.

(2) No, this concept is not a christian religious myth.

Well, it's probably a myth among christians, but it isn't completely a myth when you include all of us "non-christians" who nevertheless love Yahuwah and seek to know him. This "actual involvement of the Spirit in the lives of individuals" is happening on at least a small scale that I know about.

My further (unsolicited) thoughts on all of this are as follows:

Anything of significant value is counterfeited -- whether paper money or designer goods or spiritual things. Since one's individual relationship with the Spirit is of great value, of course the enemy would seek to counterfeit it.

Counterfeiting something (1) rips people off, (2) creates confusion, and (3) ultimately threatens the acceptance of the original (genuine) article.

For example, if Germany was flooded with counterfeit Euro bills, individuals and small businesses (and anyone without stringent counterfeit measures already in place) would lose millions -- that is, assuming the banks caught the fake bills and wouldn't accept them in the deposits. Next, individuals, businesses and banks would be extremely wary of accepting bills in those denominations, and may stop accepting cash altogether. Ultimately, everyone's confidence would be degraded, and the general acceptance of cash may be threatened. And the problem would quickly spread to all the rest of Europe, since nowadays a common currency is shared between all the member-states. Was the problem anything to do with government-issued money? No, it was the counterfeiters who caused the problem.

I believe this has been the enemy's strategy behind introducing / promoting false spiritual experiences (that are falsely attributed to the Ruach Qodesh), and also the strategy behind introducing / promoting the loose use of the phrase "the Spirit told me."

I'm certain that at least a few thousand people in the world today do experience the Set-Apart Spirit's genuine involvement in their lives (in all the ways you described), but that number is probably 1:1000 smaller than the multitudes of christians in churches who experience something counterfeit and mistake it for the Set-Apart Spirit.

If I'm doing the maths correctly, even a number as large as one million people (in the world today having an active relationship with Yahuwah) is less than one-fiftieth of one percent of the world's population. That would be a "small minority of people" (remnant) if there ever was one. What's the likelihood of knowing many of those people (who are probably scattered all around the world, and mostly separated from each other), without being specifically led by Yahuwah to the cave where a group of them is hiding out? It would seem like a myth that such people exist if one doesn't know about them!

To continue with the counterfeit explanation: the charismatic church gives us some great examples of legitimate spiritual experiences that are nonetheless counterfeit. That is to say, those experiences do not have their origin in the Ruach Qodesh, but are still legitimately "spiritual" -- having their source in an unclean spirit. Examples would be roaring like a lion, rolling around in hysterical laughter, and most all of the speaking in tongues that goes on in that church. I'm not at all inclined to write off such experiences as merely psychologically-induced. All the stories I've read or have heard first-hand (or have seen first-hand) indicate a spirit of some kind was involved -- it's just a question of which one!

Counterfeit Ruach Qodesh experiences throughout the centuries, combined with loose use of "the Spirit told me" have definitely ripped people off, created confusion (on which experiences are genuine), and have threatened the acceptance of an individual having a genuine experience with the Set-Apart Spirit (is a genuine experience even possible, or should we limit the operation of the Spirit to something less?).

If you happened to read my initial post to this forum (in the "hello my name is" thread, under this same "Fellowship" category), I shared that my experience has been "walking with the Ruach Qodesh" for over sixteeen years. So, I myself am at least one example of a person who has experienced (a) the Spirit being active in my life, (b) the Spirit leading and directing and teaching me, (c) the Spirit guiding me into Truth, and (d) the Spirit empowering me. To me it is not at all a myth. I could tell you stories upon stories for each of those activities in my own individual life...

But attached to me (friends and relatives) are others who also have a similar experience to mine. I currently know at least ten others who experience this close, individualized attention from the Spirit, and who "hear" her speak to them in the same way I descibed in the "hello my name is" thread (which is to say, as an internal voice). I've also known a few other people (years ago, and with whom I'm no longer in contact) for whom such an experience was normative, so we are getting close to fifteen. If I wrack my brain, I might be able to think of others. The point is that this is a statistically significant group. If you heard some of the stories, they would be even more significant. I've heard (and even experienced first-hand) a lot of these people's stories, and have seen the evidence of the Spirit's direct personal involvement in their lives -- not something to dismiss easily.

Now, if I loosened up your idealized (high) level of active involvement -- maybe stretching it out to include people's experiences with any of those referenced activities, rather than all of them at once -- I could add a lot more people (maybe on the order of fifty more) who could contribute credible stories of individual attention from Yahuwah himself. Of course, most of these single-experience type stories are told as testimonies of miraculous interventions, rather than as normative experiences. But the evidence would be that lots of people have such stories of involvement on some level at least. And cumulatively they testify to an active and present-day involvement of the Set-Apart Spirit in our collective lives.

So, basically my response is that such an ideal as you described is not only possible, but is also possibly normative for those who can "find" it. But such an ideal is most certainly not normative for the millions of religious christians (and catholics and orthodox christians) who do not know Yahweh / Yahushua and for whom their only connection to "the man behind the scriptures" is the gospel of Paul -- which isn't a connection at all -- but you most certainly already knew that. =) You're on this forum, after all!



Reminds me of a song I heard once back in the 90's: "God is watching us... from a distance." Scripture definitely paints a picture of a more active involvement in the affairs of men than that.

It's easy to reach conclusions based on limited evidence, and to be discouraged that something isn't happening at all, if we aren't seeing it. But there are caves in various places, with people having "set apart" experiences.



If church is our reference point, then it's no surprise that observationally we wouldn't be able to see anything that would suggest it's not a myth. We won't find such an involvement there. People in church aren't following Yahuwah (and by extension aren't experiencing his Ruach Qodesh)-- except for the very rare person who either (a) hasn't been led to leave Babylon yet, or (b) has been led to go back into the churches to witness to people about the Truth. (I've been in both (a) and (b), and let me tell you it is slim pickings, trying to talk to that "class" of people -- ie. religious people -- about the Truth.)

You cite the writers of Yada Yahweh as disagreeing, so maybe your reference point is more the community of "non-christians" here on this forum and elsewhere (you guys like being called "non-christians"? it's kinda fun, right?), or maybe it's those people you see as leaders? If that's the case, my feedback remains the same. It's possible for those who "find" it (usually after seeking for it).

Just because a man writes something deeply insightful about one thing, doesn't mean he is automatically right about every other thing he ever writes about. Using myself as an example, I say that I have an intimate relationship with Yahuwah via his Spirit (for over sixteen years), and yet probably every post I've made so far on this forum, I've had to go back and edit to improve my communication.

Where's the Spirit in this? After last edit, maybe up to 85%. Early versions maybe as little as 50%.

If I am generally "led" to talk to somebody about something (or generally to write a book about something), that doesn't mean every word out of my mouth is going to be correct (or even make sense). Maybe some of us are getting a leading, and even some specific details here and there along the way, but we aren't following as closely in all the other details as we should be (and thus are making the mistakes / creating the confusion). That's one possible explanation. Another explanation could be that the process of considering the concept of "Yada Yahweh" in great detail (as the authors had to do in order to even write the book) was as much the point of the Spirit leading them to write the book, as was our reading it. In other words, the perfection of the message was less important to her (Ruach Qodesh) than the concept of "relationally knowing Yahweh" being considered by all of us.

I'm not as familiar with the writings of both men as you (and probably everyone else on this forum) are, so I'm not sure whether Yada and Ken claim specifically that the Spirit has revealed diametrically opposed viewpoints to each of them separately, or whether they just generally claim some type of leading in what they generally write about, but then end up disagreeing sometimes. If you think it's worth elaborating on, I'd be interested in some examples of such disagreements.

Q

Edited by user Friday, September 17, 2010 1:17:21 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Hi James,

I have to say that I'm one of those people who has been led to a conclusion "different" from scripture, as a result of a specific revelation -- but only usually later to find out that my mental understanding of scripture was flawed at the time of the revelation (usually due to a mistranslation). That is to say, later on I would gain a new understanding that would suddenly fit with what was revealed previously.

With that said, it drives me crazy too! And hopefully I wouldn't drive you crazy, if you were talking to me about such a revelation.

Because while I may claim to have received a specific revelation about something, my mind doesn't check out as a result! I tend to be skeptical even of something I think the Spirit revealed to me, and I'm certainly more tending towards getting objective, logical "backup" for a revelation (before I'm comfortable accepting it) than I am towards accepting it wholesale without thought. And I would certainly be willing to discuss the whole thing at length, as a way to test the logical validity of the revelation.

I definitely agree that "people often mistake their own desire and want for the Spirit."

And I totally agree that "we must still use discernment." But is discernment a tool that is even in our toolbox? If discernment is simply using a mental-logical vetting process, then that tool isn't very widely owned (obviously the same people that don't think aren't going to be able to logically think). But, worse, if discernment is a spiritual tool only available to us in association with the Ruach Qodesh, then those people who aren't already in good standing with Yahuwah have no chance of using discernment. It would be like asking a man with no arms to punch his way out of a brick building. He doesn't have the tools, let alone he is probably too lazy to do the work necessary to get out, even if he did have those two little sledgehammers.

Q

Edited by user Friday, September 17, 2010 8:25:48 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Completeness, welfare, and peace everyone,

This is something I struggle with on a daily basis. I simply do not feel I have a proper connection to the set-apart spirit. The worst part is I know it's a problem with me... Some defense I'm throwing up, or an outpouring of my double mindedness (Something I seem to be plagued with). I always fall to the excuse of Attention Deficit Disorder (I'm hyper, too). So, because of my "disorder" (It's very probably psycological, and I think if I trusted Yahuwah more it would go away) I fand it hard to pray, or really retain scripture. I don't know. I never had a dad like a lot of people did, and I come from a family that is kind of distant. So, I think sometimes I don't even know how to have a relationship like our spiritual dad wants... Like I said, I don't know.


Your brother,
Michael Browell

Hi, glad to have you here, and judging by the posts you have made i think you will be a valuable contributor.



That is a great example of where I believe the Spirit is at work in our lives, there have been many times when reading something in one of our English bibles that I could just tell this wasn't right, be it the Spirit directly telling me, or just based on the fact that it just doesn't comport with Yahuweh's character or other parts of Scripture, and like you said it's either mistranslation or added stuff.

The stuff that drives me crazy is when trying to explain to a Christian why we should still observe the Sabbath, they bring up letting the spirit lead them, and how they feel good, and they feel the spirit active in their life at Sunday Church. As you pointed out above, their is a spirit active in the Church, but it isn't Yahuweh's.



I'm quite mad as it is, so I wouldn't worry if I were you. :)



Exactly, if something the Spirit tells you is truly from Yahuweh, then one shouldn't have any problem with being asked to back it up, with what we know to be True and Trustworthy. Even Yahushua backed up what he said with the Towrah, so we should all be held to that same standard.



I could tell some stories about Christian family member and bad decisions that "God told them" to make, which ended up being just bad decisions, but I'm sure everyone has heard plenty of those.



I think discernment is a tool that everyone inherently possess. Yahuweh gave us our Neshamah, which is the ability to discern right from wrong, and to choose. Unfortunately there are two things necessary for people to use it constructively. 1)A desire and willingness to do so. 2)Proper and correct information. Through religion, and politics, the adversary has made the second very difficult to find, and the first almost non existent.

Thanks, James.



Would I be correct to state that Neshamah is the same word / concept that is (in English) referred to as Conscience?

Interesting analysis about what is necessary for people to use it constructively. I always rather thought the "conscience" was like an inner voice (or sense) that spoke to us, whether we were particularly desirous of hearing what "it" said or not, and also whether we even knew the proper and correct information ahead-of-time (before hearing "it" speak to us).

Your analysis of the two pre-requisites make me think that Neshamah, then, isn't something that was given to us as an already-functioning ability, but rather as some kind of un-developed capacity. That is, we have the potential to develop it, but we've got to do the work first. If that's the case, it seems that we can't really be held accountable (by Yahuwah) for bad decisions, until such time as our Neshamah is up-and-running. Because we didn't know better.

I always figured the so-called "inherent" sense of right and wrong that people supposedly universally have, is what makes it possible for Yahuwah to fairly judge us for all our decisions in life. And I figured that "inherent" sense was the Conscience.

But, it could be that (1) Conscience is a myth, as you are possibly saying, and that (2) no such "inherent" sense of right and wrong does universally exist among people. Thoughts?

Q

Conscience is the closest English equivalent to it. The Neshamah is the one thing that really sets man apart from animals, it is what makes us in Yahuweh’s image, and what makes it possible for us to Yada Yahuweh.


In a way it is, the Neshamah was the reason Adam and Chawah hid after eating the forbidden fruit, it’s the reason Cain hid Abel’s body after murdering him. They knew what they had done was wrong; no one had to tell them that it was wrong, they knew it was.



This is why I think conscience isn’t a perfectly accurate translation. There is more to Neshamah then there is to conscience. It is the ability to make choice, but it also the part that tells us that our choice was bad. Animals don’t have either; they act purely on instinct, and don’t feel good or bad afterwards. The first part is where men today have been hamstrung; we are showered with incorrect information, and have been brain washed into thinking being judgmental is wrong, and thus most don’t use there Neshamah to choose right as opposed to wrong, and they don’t feel bad because they have reasoned their way around that. As for the second part while it certainly isn’t functional in infants, but I have seen children as young as 1 year that know when they have done something wrong (it’s different for every kid), and not long after they begin to realize that, they begin to develop there discernment skills, and learn to let their Neshamah fight their instinct.

People often don’t use their ability to make choices; they just act on their animal instinct, and then realize that their choice was wrong. So the two parts work together.


I think there is an inherent sense of right and wrong. No one told Cain that murder was wrong, but when he murdered Abel he knew he had done something wrong. With the exception of sociopaths, murders flee the scene because they know what they did was wrong. But I do think people can ignore that inherit sense, or reason their way around it, even Hitler thought what he was doing was right.

I hope I’m clear, this is a complicated topic.