 Joined: 6/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: Arlington, WA
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Ohhhh, where to start. I'm a jumble inside - torn between what I read on this site and what I've been taught as a Christian since I was born. I read the translations of Bible passages here and they make so much sense and answer a lot of questions, but then I read to not use Jesus and Lord and I get troubled. I see the reference to the Holy Spirit in the female sense and again I get troubled. I understand why you don't use Jesus and Lord, etc..., but I feel like I'm betraying God or turning my back on what I've been taught. I very deeply believe in God and see Him active in my life through out the years. I have my doubts and things I don't understand and this is what keeps me searching for the truth. I went to a Calvary church and learned so much, but after reading things here I worry about what to believe. How can God be so active in my life if I was on the wrong path with believing in Jesus as Yahushua.
I believe there are a lot of problems in Christianity, people seem to have lost track of the core beliefs. I've even asked my Christian friends what they see are the core beliefs and they can't really answer. A lot of false teaching has crept in and then I come here and if I understand you correctly you do not call yourselves Christians. You see Christianity as a false religion, but I've seen God so active in some of my friends lives I just don't know how I can turn my back on that. Some of my friends deeply search for the truth and find it in Christianity. I feel like if I say I'm not Christian I am going to hell.
Do you believe all Christians are lost?
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 Joined: 6/10/2008(UTC)
Posts: 331
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Your feelings are very commonly held -- you are not alone. Quote:Do you believe all Christians are lost? I dunno about that. "Above my pay grade." Not my place to judge. Many of my family and friends have had the kinds of "Christian" experiences you describe, so I guess it's possible. But it wasn't my experience. I was a "casual Christian", raised Lutheran, for 35 years before finding out about the lies that had crept in. (A little leaven leavens the whole loaf.) Looking back, I can see His hand in my life even in those days. But everything changed when I started building a relationship. Knowing and using His name, understanding the significance of names in Scripture; setting the pride aside and trying to understand and walk according to His instructions. There really is nothing like it. One of the keys, I think, is to start by building on the positives before dwelling on the negatives. Spend your time soaking in what's right about the Feasts, rather than what's wrong with "Christmas" and "Easter". Learn to observe Torah, rather than condemning cheap grace. Explore the beauty of "I AM Salvation" rather than dwelling on Hosea 2:16-17. Really work on "Love your neighbor". (Love isn't a feeling, it's an active verb.) Ask the Spirit to work in your heart. Come back to "What's Wrong With Christianity" after your more comfortable with "What's Right With Yah's Truth". In His Love, RidesWithYah |
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 Joined: 2/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 65
Location: Cincinnati, OH
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I'm in a similar place, Starlight. I've only recently discovered this place and, while mindblowingly eye-opening, it will definitely take me time to sort it all out in my head. I've always been pretty religious, so that's certainly making things more difficult for me to let go of. I've also always "felt" close to God (for what that's worth), but when reading the Scriptures here, I actually hear Him. I started my relationship with Yahuweh (though I didn't know the importance of His name at the time) 5 years ago in an Alpha class. That was a great starting point, but only got me so far. For me, I've just got to concentrate on trusting Yah that, no matter how screwed up things are, He is in control and will see us through it.
That's my understanding of salvation as well. I know plenty of Christians that, while calling Him God, Lord, Jesus, etc, trust Him completely. He brought my dad out of alcoholism, He led a passing driver to find where my uncle's motorcycle went off the road, He's been by my side since before I can remember. I think that's the main difference between ritualistic religion and a loving, trusting relationship with our Creator. One can go through the motions of religion without building any relationship whatsoever and that's our main problem with it (IMO).
On the other hand, Yada is adamant about the number of "saved" being quite small (~1 in a million). He makes a strong argument, but I'm not completely convinced. Not that it matters the number, mind you. It's not in our hands (thankfully) who will live eternally with Yahuweh and who will not. But with Yahuweh in control, I know (not just believe, know) that He will make it right (whatever that is).
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 Joined: 10/23/2007(UTC) Posts: 2,616  Location: Texas Thanks: 5 times
Was thanked: 216 time(s) in 149 post(s)
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I don't think all Christians are lost. I think only a handful have any real interest in getting to know Yahuweh for who he is, but that is based on the Christians I have encountered others may have had a different experience.
I know Ken has said that he came to know Yahuweh through Christianity, Yada on the other hand had to reject Christianity altogether in order to form a relationship. I think the difference is largely in their experience with Christians, Ken has stated that he has meet many Christians who really seek to know and love Yahuweh, Yada I think, much like myself, has not meet many of them.
That said I have meet some, my wife was in a similar place to you Starlight, I believe she has always had a relationship with Yahuweh, and through study has come to know Him better, she has learned that a lot of what she was taught was incorrect, but that not all of it was. She has learned his name, and that He wants us to call Him by it, and not by the title LORD, so she calls Him Yahuweh, or Father. She has learned that Sunday is a pagan corruption, and now keeps the Sabbath. I could go on and on, but the point is, while she always loved Him, she has come to Know Him better, no matter how much we know Him, we should always seek to know Him better. It's just like any other relationship you have, the more time you spend with the person, getting to know them the closer you become. I've been with my wife for 5 years now, and I know her vastly more than I did 5 years ago, and I'll know her even better 5 years from now. We never stop getting to know a person, and the same is true for Yahuweh.
I can't judge rather your experience as a Christian was an emotional high, which I think many Christians experience, or a genuine walk with Yahuweh, as RWY said above my pay grade. I will say the fact that you are still seeking Him says a lot, and it's all good. Like I posted somewhere else, it's the drive and desire to know Him, that mindset is what all of His children share. |
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.
“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand |
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 Joined: 9/10/2007(UTC)
Posts: 735
Location: Penna
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
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I am assuming Starlight that you are a protestant when you mentioned Calvary church. As you are a protestant...put yourself in the shoes of the first protestants who were just coming into that fold. For the first time they were reading the scriptures in vernacular...they were seeing that the practices of the RCC did not jive with those scriptures that they knew enough to revere but did not really understand. What did they feel? Did they feel like they were betraying the One True God and his one true church? Did they feel like they were turning their backs on nearly a milennium and a half of history, tradition, custom...on the religion of their father's father's....were they leaving their place in the world and their comfort zone.? Were they feeling like they were crossing a rubicon? "Yes, I understand that idolatry is bad...that's all fine and good...but no eucharist?....no...gulp...confession?" It is a tall order and it can't be injested and digested all at once. And going from the RCC to Protestantism is like leaving a room in a house....whats being suggested here on YY is to exit the house. Yes it is challenging. You have a lifetime attachment to Christianity...whatever denomination you subscribe to. You (to paraphrase) write that, 'you guys are saying all these crazy things....and these things that I just don't know about...and you say this or that and I find it hard to accept" Well the point is...we don't matter...not a single one of us. It doesn't matter what we say or do or advocate or anything else. You have to investigate. If you feel uncofortable with the YY family of books doing the work for you....fine...read your scriptures...take the time to investigate. Reading a bad translation of the scriptures is better than reading 500 books written on the subject of the scriptures. if you can read and strive not to read through doctrinal goggles You are not going to arrive at even the merest of Christianities. You get to that destination on the back of nearly 2000 years of theological extrapolation and damnable fornication with everything from plato to pluto. My suggestion for you is to slow down, take a deep breath, and then take the plunge and find out for yourself. Even if you reject everything that we hold dear....you will do it honestly. It can't hurt to sit down with the scriptures of your God and try to find out what he really wants of you and for you. infact, that sounds like a good day to me. We didn't all come to YY and as babes in the woods. Many of us were already out or on the way out of that afore mentioned house. We came to this place we are at through the KJV or the NIV or what have you. I knew that something was wrong with Christianity since I was 5 years old. I found Yada Yahweh as a person of Jewish ancestry that was just about to embrace that religion due to my rejection of Christianity....talk about out of the pan and into the fire...the issue is I knew the truth of Yahushua...but I could not keep accepting the dross of christianity...I think there was a crossroads where I was sincere and I just said I cannot accept the practices of Christianity and I cannot reject "Jesus"....where do I go from here Father? A bit later I found POD and followed a link...and in the mean time realized that messianic judaism was no answer either.
As for God being active in your life....why would He not be. He finds a way for the sincere in the darkest and most ignorant of places. Christianity and Judaism are far from the darkest or most ignorant places. They are will you will find the majority of the remnant....those who might not have totally gotten it...but are sincere and seeking. Why would he not be active in your life if you are seeking and you are sincere. As you yourself have said...something is rotten in the state of Christianity...and you agree and find sense and peace in much of what we hold dear and what we proclaim....if you hold that YHWH has been active in your life...why do you find it so hard to believe that you finding this community or these resources is not just another one of His acts of love? Remember...internal conflict comes from that cold sweat that starts to form when a challenge comes to your core and it shakes you...You have conflict not because you reject what Yada Yahweh stands for....but because it has made you reject..or see the contradiction in your own system. We have plenty of visitors that come on to this forum and what YY books and the YY family stands for thuds up against them like a paper airplane thrown at Godzilla. Obviously you are not that person....The question is...what will you do with this knowlege?
Shalom |
YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
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 Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,470 Location: England Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
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I actually started to write stuff, but it all got lost. dognamit!
Anyway
I completely empathise with what you are experiencing there Starlight. I came from a very happy clappy fall overy holy spirty experience loving Christianity, and like I said in a previous post - I had to confront the issue of feelings when I was asked about Todd Bentley.
The problem with all the experiences you get in Christianity is the fact that they are identical, if not more powerful, outside of Christianity. New Age stuff for example, new age healers can claim a better success rate of healing than Christians can...
All of the stuff from barking like a dog to falling over I can tell you is not from Yah - for the simple reason that it is against what He does, how He works. The only time people in Scripture hit the deck was for the simple fact of flesh entering the presence of Yah - it was not Yah pushing them over it was a natural reaction to the "I'm dead" moment many had in those intense situations. There was no barking, no speaking in tounges the message is always extremely clear and there is always a reason. It is also to be noted that Yah tell's people in His presence to stand up.
Anyway - if you look at most New Age experiences from visions to outer-body to healing and overwhelming peace/joy/happiness - it is identical. Especially in things like Kundalini.
We are told we must test things. Although things seem real to us we must test. If experiences are nice it does not automatically associate it with Yah. Bad things are never hard to do, if they were we would not have a problem. We are sensory beings - we love hugs and stuff - so it is natural to want these things in a spiritual way too.
My confidence used to come from that, but now it comes from the promises Yah has made to us through His testable Scriptures. That is a much more solid base, I no longer have ups and downs of spiritual highs and dryness because I have a solid foundation on which to stand.
Are Christians lost? My feeling is in general yes, it's just something we have to accept. On an individual level though, no. Like you and I have demonstrated there are those who are seeking, and who will always push for truth over anything else. As James said it is a journey. We do have to walk in the right direction, as long as we are walking in that direction we will make it.
Right and wrong is probably a bad way of putting it, I think it is more your desirer to Yada (know) Yahweh - in regards to Christianity, we need to condemn lies and proclaim truth, that is what we are called to do. Even when everyone else is against you stand up for the Truth. So finding out what that Truth is, is important - Yah gave us everything we need for that and instead of gauging where people are - we must see where they are not. If someone believes that Torah is done away with and knows nothing of the Feasts and their context - then they need the information to make their own choice. The Truth is the key - the path is narrow and Yah's way is the only way - it's His game, His rules
That is what we have to stick to - otherwise we can end up flitting around mentally, and getting confused. Like Yada said once (not a direct quote lol) it's not about how right or wrong you can be, it's about knowing what is right and doing our best for Yah to be as right as we can be.
No one will ever have absolute truth or be 100% right - but we can have a good idea at what it looks like.
All we are asked to do is provide that information, then people have the opportunity to decided for themselves if they want it or not. Unfortunately Christianity as a whole is incorrect and actually offensive to Yah - but the individuals inside it - well, that's down to them. |
Signature Updated! Woo that was old... |
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 Joined: 7/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 127
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I am usually a bit too direct when it comes to this stuff so forgive me.
It's not hard to see the numerous problems with Christianity (start with Christmas & Easter). What you have been given Starlight is an awsome gift not a burden. Christianity, whether it's in Protestant or Catholic form is vomit. You can either continue lying in it, or get up, clean yourself off, and walk away from it with Yahuwah. Yah is begging you to come with Him. Abraham didn't need much prodding to walk away from religion, we shouldn't either.
Since Yahuwah never predicated salvation on being a Christian, you don't have to worry about going to hell for not labeling yourself one. Please, turn you back on what you have been taught.
Whether Yahuwah is active in the lives of Christians you know is irrelevant to the truth. You now have the choice to walk with Yahuwah or believe in Christianities core beliefs - whatever that means.
Bottom line, take hold of the gift you have been give, hold it tight, and never let it go. Nevermind what you think is happening with your Christian friends. Show them the truth, give them the same gift you have been given.
All Christians may not be lost but Christianity definetely is.
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 Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA
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Quote:Yahuwah never predicated salvation on being a Christian. Quite correct. Actually, it's the other way around: Yahuwah predicated "Christianity" on being saved. But He warned us up front that this garden would be full of weeds; that the net bringing us aboard would contain live fish, dead fish, and evil fish; that the loaf of Christianity would be riddled with leaven; that what began as a tiny seed---and wasn't designed to grow all that big---would become a freak so huge that predators would nest in its branches. Yahshua told us precisely what it would be like. Why are we so shocked and dismayed that things turned out precisely as He said they would? You don't like the term "Christianity"? Fine. Call it the Kingdom of Heaven, as Yahshua did. The problem with it remains the same. I, for one, do not intend to leave the Kingdom of Heaven just because there's something fishy in it at the moment. Apparently, many are called out, but few are chosen. kp
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Joined: 6/10/2008(UTC)
Posts: 331
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Quote:would become a freak so huge that predators would nest in its branches. **WHAM**OK, I've heard the "mustard seed" story for more years than Yahshua walked the earth, and I've never understood the size of the resulting tree as a negative thing, hosting "predators in its branches". I love you for that. Thanks. |
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Joined: 6/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: Arlington, WA
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Thank you all - that was a big help! I'm very encouraged to continue studying this site and reading my Bible. What you say really strikes a cord with me. I will probably have more questions so I hope I don't become a pest and if it's been covered before just direct me to where I can find it.
Thanks,
Starlight
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 Joined: 4/15/2010(UTC)
Posts: 305
Location: USA
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Hello Starlight, I thought I would comment here as well.
Here in my opinion is the deception.
The world equates being a follower of the Hebrew Messiah (Who commanded his followers to do and teach the least of the Torah, and said "if you want eternal life keep the commandments) with the religious system known as "Christianity". People assume if you are a follower of the Messiah any you worship the Elohim of Abraham that you must be a "Christian"
But the pure truth of the matter is this. Messiah, nor any of his Apostles or Disciples were "Christians", they were all Torah observant Hebrews who rejected man made religion that adds and subtracts from the Torah. None of them ever participated in the religion we know as "Christianity".
We are raised that rejection of church dogma, or to disagree with what our religious guru teaches is to reject the Messiah.
Nothing could be farther from the truth. We should always view our "religion" through the lens of the truth, instead we are raised to view truth through the dark, horrible lens of religion.
What you are feeling is perfectly natural. What we perceive to be "truth" becomes our reality, so when your mind begins to view something else as truth, your "reality" literally crumbles and your brain pitches a fit.
So my suggestion to you would be to search for the truth no matter where it might lead you.
All the times in your mind when you though "Hmmm that person must not be a "real" christian", I would suggest this. They are a "real christian" and you have been something else all along.
Christianity is a religion ABOUT the God of the Bible and about the Messiah, but the religion then teaches that if you obey the God of the Bible or obey the 100% pro-Torah teachings of the Messiah you are a "legalist and attacking the grace of Geeeesuuus".
I would submit to you this. It is impossible to truly follow the teachings of the Hebrew Messiah and participate in christianity. For in the end, it is nothing but pagan sun god worship filth, with a "Jesus" sticker slapped on it.
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Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,470 Location: England Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
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bigritchie wrote:For in the end, it is nothing but pagan sun god worship filth, with a "Jesus" sticker slapped on it.
Best summing up ever. |
Signature Updated! Woo that was old... |
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