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Offline Y777  
#1 Posted : Thursday, April 8, 2010 8:45:26 AM(UTC)
Y777
Joined: 3/20/2010(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Texas

At the church I attend, there is a man we will simply call D who is in charge of the men's ministry. Now, he has truly good intentions, but... not so good follow through. Plus, I think I've heard somewhere that the road to hell is paved with that...

Anyways, every week he sends out an email, just talking about God and various issues. Opening up my email today, I was confronted with the following:



"This is the week in history that is the beginning of what all of creation is groaning for, restoration. Jesus put in place what all of God's people were waiting for yet did not recognize, establishing God's kingdom on earth in the present. I believe that one of the main reasons the disciples didn't believe the resurrection had occurred before their encounter with Jesus in person was because with their natural eyesight nothing had changed. When the Messiah came, everyone in that day believed that everything would change and natural order of things would become different. Since nothing seemed to have changed after Jesus death on the cross, whom they believed was the Messiah, they were truly at a loss for what is the real truth. It was only after the coming of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost that they received spiritual sight and hearing and became able to recognize and understand that everything really had changed. The New Covenant from God with man was really in effect.

It is important to recognize the difference between the old covenant and the new covenant established through Jesus. The old covenant was established by a man with God. In this covenant with God, starting with Abraham, an agreement was made to follow God and His ways. These are the 613 commands that were written down by Moses in the Torah, the first five books in the Holy Bible. When a man agreed to follow God’s instructions, choosing life, in essence entering into a contract with God, God agreed to be his God. This covenant was established and verifiable through circumcision. Therefore, this covenant could only be made by men. Women could only participate in this covenant through the head of the house they were in. This could only be through their father’s house or their husbands. Since this is a covenant from man with God this covenant could be broken by man. On his own a man could never keep the instructions God has given for how to live. Therefore, no man was able to attain righteousness on his own.


The new covenant does not do away with the old covenant, it makes it better. God has not changed. He still wants us to live the way he designed us to. God's Word is always true. He is the same today as He was yesterday and He will be the same tomorrow. As an example of a type and shadow God's Word we have the edicts and decrees made by the kings of old, once given they could not be rescinded or done away with. The books of Daniel and Ester are great examples of this. In them we learn that once a king has written His edict or decree it could not be done away with although new ones could be written. These are reflective of the promises and covenants God has made with man throughout the Holy Bible. There are some big differences available to us through the new covenant making it better than the old covenant. Our righteousness is now attained through Jesus alone, not by our works and the Holy Spirit enables each of us to live life to the fullest God’s way.

In the new covenant, God is establishing His covenant with all of mankind. In the “old days” a covenant was established between individuals by exchanging clothes and cutting their hands and rubbing ash in it, making a black line in the scarred hand. When a person held out their hand to someone, it showed they were in a covenant relationship with someone. The value in this is that it showed others that they were never alone. Even if no one could be seen with them it meant that someone had their back. This is the covenant that David and Jonathan made with each other when they exchanged clothes and cut their hands. Jesus has done this with us through the piercing of His hands and giving us His robe of righteousness to wear. When Jesus showed His scarred hands to the disciple known as doubting Thomas, He was verifying that a covenant had been made by God with man. This new covenant is verified in us through the circumcision of the heart. This is supernatural surgery done by God when He gives us a new spirit and a new heart of flesh, replacing our heart of clay. Therefore, this is a covenant relationship from God available to all people men, women and children. Jesus is our High Priest allowing each and every one of us the ablility to come into the presence of God without having to have an earthly priest do it for us as was necessary in the old covenant.


Some of the biggest differences between the old and the new covenant is that since it is established by God it cannot be broken by man. God’s word is always true making this is the everlasting covenant that we have with God, entered into individually through Jesus. God, the Father, is on one side of the new covenant. God, Jesus the Son, is in the center of it and God, the Holy Spirit, is on our side of this covenant. This makes our hope sure in the promises God has given us for our future. Our spirit has been redeemed, our soul is being redeemed and our body will be redeemed. It is because we are covered by the blood of Jesus, our Redeemer, body, soul and spirit, being empowered by the Holy Spirit and given new mercy and grace each morning that we are able to walk in His righteousness every day. In the new covenant Jesus is our High Priest interceding for us to God the Father so that each and every one of us is able to come into the presence of God without having to have an earthly priest do it for us as was necessary in the old covenant.



A man who wants to know God spends time with Him. A man, who only wants to know about God, listens to what others tell him about God. In our pursuit of holiness we are progressively manifesting on the outside, in our daily and even mundane activities, what Jesus has already done for us on the inside. It is important to remember that the mercy and grace we receive from God is never limited. Regardless of where we are in our journey of life and the depth of our relationship with the Living God, He fully accepts us and loves us completely in exactly the position that we find ourself. He wants us to come to Him just as we are. Our God is willing to forgive everything we have ever done wrong against Him, against ourself and against others. There is nothing we can do that is to big or horrible for God to forgive. As we turn to Him and receive the forgiveness He has for us we are able to have a fresh start every time. I encourage you to not let your shortcomings; your weaknesses and rebellion in any area of life cause you to distance yourself from God. Our God is big enough to receive us in any condition and draws us to Him with His everlasting love and loving kindness. He is not waiting for us to come to Him so He can beat us up for our failings. Instead, He encourages us, strengthens us and gives us fresh hope every time we come to Him. We are truly blessed to have a heavenly Father that is perfect in every way and really does want us to pursue getting to know Him better.



This is the season of Freedom which is from Passover to Pentecost (50 days). Have you accepted and received the new freedoms God has for you this season? I pray that each and every one of us can consistently spend intimate one on one time with our God every day through Pentecost. This is in having conversation with Him, renewing our mind with His Word or just being still and listening to what God is speaking to our heart about. The goal of doing this is not about time rather it is about making the divine connection with our God and learning to hear the sound He is making for each of us to hear. This will prepare us for the season of Revelation for God's people which begins at Pentecost."



So... yea. Like I said, good intentions, even at some points the right attitude, but... falls flat. I want to respond with some gentle correction. I have before, concerning a different one he wrote about the Messiyah's name, and he responded well to that. Obviously, he is still stuck on the whole "Jesus" thing, but... I'm not going to stop until they change or kick me out, so yea. Basically, if anyone wants to take a stab at this, I would much appreciate it. I'm not the only one on this email list, and I want to make sure the correct info is delivered as soon as possible, for everyones benefit. Thanks guys and gals.
Yahuweh is faithful and loving beyond my thoughts, feelings, emotions, actions, and petty human notions of what constitutes right and wrong. So high does He soar above all things that I do not even know if proclaiming Him as good is in fact good. It is certainly not adequate. So I am thankful still that He accepts my small sacrifices, my petty praises, that my words reach His mighty ears. Thank you Yahweh. May we all learn what is right in your sight, and not our own.
Offline James  
#2 Posted : Thursday, April 8, 2010 11:55:04 AM(UTC)
James
Joined: 10/23/2007(UTC)
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Well I thought I would give a response to his letter. These are just a few of things that popped into my mind while reading it. If you find anything useful Y777, feel free to copy it, rephrase it, make it nicer or do what ever you want with it.



wrote:
"This is the week in history that is the beginning of what all of creation is groaning for, restoration. Jesus put in place what all of God's people were waiting for yet did not recognize, establishing God's kingdom on earth in the present. I believe that one of the main reasons the disciples didn't believe the resurrection had occurred before their encounter with Jesus in person was because with their natural eyesight nothing had changed. When the Messiah came, everyone in that day believed that everything would change and natural order of things would become different. Since nothing seemed to have changed after Jesus death on the cross, whom they believed was the Messiah, they were truly at a loss for what is the real truth. It was only after the coming of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost that they received spiritual sight and hearing and became able to recognize and understand that everything really had changed. The New Covenant from God with man was really in effect.


Forgetting the errant names Jesus, Holy Spirit and Cross as well as the rest of the errant terminology for a moment, God’s kingdom is not on Earth at the moment, and won’t be until the millennial Sabbath. And there is no New Covenant, there is a Renewal of THE Covenant, a renewal means the same covenant was renewed, not amended, not changed, not abrogated, not done away with, the same covenant that Yahuweh instituted with Abraham is the same Covenant we have with him, he cut us all in on the deal of a life time.


wrote:
It is important to recognize the difference between the old covenant and the new covenant established through Jesus. The old covenant was established by a man with God. In this covenant with God, starting with Abraham, an agreement was made to follow God and His ways. These are the 613 commands that were written down by Moses in the Torah, the first five books in the Holy Bible. When a man agreed to follow God’s instructions, choosing life, in essence entering into a contract with God, God agreed to be his God. This covenant was established and verifiable through circumcision. Therefore, this covenant could only be made by men. Women could only participate in this covenant through the head of the house they were in. This could only be through their father’s house or their husbands. Since this is a covenant from man with God this covenant could be broken by man. On his own a man could never keep the instructions God has given for how to live. Therefore, no man was able to attain righteousness on his own.


Again, no Old and New Covenant, and Yahuwshua didn’t establish a New Covenant he Renewed the one and only Covenant that Yahuweh made. Which brings up error number two in this statement, the Covenant was not established by a man with God; it was established, ordained and given by Yahuweh. Third the 613 commandments is Judaic religious hog wash, it is not from Yahuweh, most are twisted manipulations of what Yahuweh said, see The Owner’s Manual for details. Circumcision was the sign of the Covenant, but women were not excluded, Yah is not myopic. Yes the Covenant can and is broken by man, and it still can be it is the nature of an agreement, and the nature of free will. And where he is getting the idea that man formed the Covenant I don’t know but it is completely unscriptural, according to Scripture Yahuweh established the Covenant with Abraham, confirmed it through his sons, and codified it through Moshe.



wrote:
The new covenant does not do away with the old covenant, it makes it better. God has not changed. He still wants us to live the way he designed us to. God's Word is always true. He is the same today as He was yesterday and He will be the same tomorrow. As an example of a type and shadow God's Word we have the edicts and decrees made by the kings of old, once given they could not be rescinded or done away with. The books of Daniel and Ester are great examples of this. In them we learn that once a king has written His edict or decree it could not be done away with although new ones could be written. These are reflective of the promises and covenants God has made with man throughout the Holy Bible. There are some big differences available to us through the new covenant making it better than the old covenant. Our righteousness is now attained through Jesus alone, not by our works and the Holy Spirit enables each of us to live life to the fullest God’s way.


Aside from the fact that there is no new covenant, the Renewal of the Covenant didn’t change the nature of the Covenant one bit, not one jot or tittle was changed, therefore it was not improved. “God has not changed. He still wants us to live the way he designed us to. God's Word is always true. He is the same today as He was yesterday and He will be the same tomorrow.” Right, but he’s giving us a better deal than he did those other people before Jebus, and that’s not changing, circular logic is fun isn’t it. Our righteousness has never been attained any way other than through our trust and reliance on Yahuweh, be that Trust and Reliance be on the promise of the Torah, or on the now known fulfillment of the Torah’s promises’ it is out Trust and Reliance on Yahuweh for our salvation that makes us righteous, always has been always will be.


wrote:
In the new covenant, God is establishing His covenant with all of mankind. In the “old days” a covenant was established between individuals by exchanging clothes and cutting their hands and rubbing ash in it, making a black line in the scarred hand. When a person held out their hand to someone, it showed they were in a covenant relationship with someone. The value in this is that it showed others that they were never alone. Even if no one could be seen with them it meant that someone had their back. This is the covenant that David and Jonathan made with each other when they exchanged clothes and cut their hands. Jesus has done this with us through the piercing of His hands and giving us His robe of righteousness to wear. When Jesus showed His scarred hands to the disciple known as doubting Thomas, He was verifying that a covenant had been made by God with man. This new covenant is verified in us through the circumcision of the heart. This is supernatural surgery done by God when He gives us a new spirit and a new heart of flesh, replacing our heart of clay. Therefore, this is a covenant relationship from God available to all people men, women and children. Jesus is our High Priest allowing each and every one of us the ablility to come into the presence of God without having to have an earthly priest do it for us as was necessary in the old covenant.


So according to him I guess we should all cut our hands and rub ash in them. If he would bother to actually study the Torah, he would know that everything about the High Priest was there to serve as a stand in for the MessiYah, every aspect of his job was symbolic of Yahushua.



wrote:
Some of the biggest differences between the old and the new covenant is that since it is established by God it cannot be broken by man. God’s word is always true making this is the everlasting covenant that we have with God, entered into individually through Jesus. God, the Father, is on one side of the new covenant. God, Jesus the Son, is in the center of it and God, the Holy Spirit, is on our side of this covenant. This makes our hope sure in the promises God has given us for our future. Our spirit has been redeemed, our soul is being redeemed and our body will be redeemed. It is because we are covered by the blood of Jesus, our Redeemer, body, soul and spirit, being empowered by the Holy Spirit and given new mercy and grace each morning that we are able to walk in His righteousness every day. In the new covenant Jesus is our High Priest interceding for us to God the Father so that each and every one of us is able to come into the presence of God without having to have an earthly priest do it for us as was necessary in the old covenant.


The first sentence here is wrong in so many ways, the Covenant was established by Yahuweh, we’ve been over this, and it can be broken, and it still can be broken. Okay, so the “new covenant” is an everlasting one, I guess when Yahuweh said that the Covenant was an everlasting one, he was just kidding us, what a funny trickster he is.



wrote:
A man who wants to know God spends time with Him. A man, who only wants to know about God, listens to what others tell him about God


Good advice, I have to give credit where credit is due, too bad most people, including Christians don’t heed this.

wrote:
In our pursuit of holiness we are progressively manifesting on the outside, in our daily and even mundane activities, what Jesus has already done for us on the inside. It is important to remember that the mercy and grace we receive from God is never limited. Regardless of where we are in our journey of life and the depth of our relationship with the Living God, He fully accepts us and loves us completely in exactly the position that we find ourself. He wants us to come to Him just as we are. Our God is willing to forgive everything we have ever done wrong against Him, against ourself and against others. There is nothing we can do that is to big or horrible for God to forgive. As we turn to Him and receive the forgiveness He has for us we are able to have a fresh start every time. I encourage you to not let your shortcomings; your weaknesses and rebellion in any area of life cause you to distance yourself from God. Our God is big enough to receive us in any condition and draws us to Him with His everlasting love and loving kindness. He is not waiting for us to come to Him so He can beat us up for our failings. Instead, He encourages us, strengthens us and gives us fresh hope every time we come to Him. We are truly blessed to have a heavenly Father that is perfect in every way and really does want us to pursue getting to know Him better.


Short of errant terminology this paragraph is pretty good.



wrote:
This is the season of Freedom which is from Passover to Pentecost (50 days). Have you accepted and received the new freedoms God has for you this season? I pray that each and every one of us can consistently spend intimate one on one time with our God every day through Pentecost. This is in having conversation with Him, renewing our mind with His Word or just being still and listening to what God is speaking to our heart about. The goal of doing this is not about time rather it is about making the divine connection with our God and learning to hear the sound He is making for each of us to hear. This will prepare us for the season of Revelation for God's people which begins at Pentecost.


Well except for the fact that if I read your post right he sent this out today, and Passover was last week, and he said this week is important, so I am assuming he is equating Passover with Easter which is wrong and stupid, this paragraph also is pretty good. It has good suggestions and I hope he follows them and takes the time to come to know Yahuweh as He revealed Himself.




Hope this is helpful.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline Matthew  
#3 Posted : Thursday, April 8, 2010 11:57:40 AM(UTC)
Matthew
Joined: 10/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,191
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Location: São Paulo, Brazil

Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 2 post(s)
There are a number ways you could approach it. I would probably take a dig at the 613 laws statement, because in honesty I once said a similar thing, instead I was saying we should observe them because I initially thought they were correct when I was new to the Torah. It is errant to say "These are the 613 commands that were written down by Moses in the Torah, the first five books in the Holy Bible," because they weren't written down my Moses but by Maimonides. And since Maimonides is questionable, it makes these 613 laws questionable, which could lead you into getting them to read The Owner's Manual by Ken Power. Through TOM we come to realise that the Torah is perfectly and purposefully written in the way it is for us to understand who God is, what He has done for us, what He will do for us, how He does it for us, and why He does it for us.
Offline bitnet  
#4 Posted : Saturday, April 10, 2010 12:46:40 AM(UTC)
bitnet
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120

Shalom,

I am finding it easier to jumpstart the enquiry process by asking people to explain their religion at the time of Easter 2,000 years ago. There is no NT and only the Tanakh and they have to prove their belief from it. I also tend to ask them about getting baptised "in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit" -- what are their names? You don't have to get into doctrines and other teachings if you can't even identify whom you pray to, and if this realisation does not make them think enough to enquire further, then perhaps this message is not for them yet.
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
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