that's gonna make some awkward moments at dinner...

I'm assuming the part that is seeming out of place to you is the harmful spirit from God, I know that is the part that stuck out to me.
The word for harmful is ra'ah which means most accurately Evil. So it would be an evil spirit from God. I don't know about you but the idea of an evil spirit coming from God is a bit unsettling, and doesn't make sense when verse 12 says that Yahuweh was with David. On the surface just looking at it i would say it may be possible that the word evil should be applied to God and not Spirit, thus the spirit of an evil god came upon Saul. My Hebrew grammar is not great, so I don't know for sure if this is what it says or not. Also the word for Spirit is Ruwach, the word usually used for the Ruwach Ha Qodesh, I'm going to look and see if anywhere else the word Ruwach is used in relation to a spirit other than Yahweh's. The Hebrew is ruwach 'elohym ra'ah So if anyone knows Hebrew grammar better than I, if you could tell me if "spirit of an evil god" would be a grammatically correct rendering.

Well I was focusing on the first part, and didn't look at the latter, but the word translated and he raved is naba, which is the Hebrew word for to speak as a prophet, to speak by divine power, to sing as if seized with divine impulse. it can mean to act as if mad, but according to Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon that is usually only in reference to false prophets, and has to do with the fact that while they were giving there prophecy, they would often, "act like madmen vehemently agitated, and spasmodically distorted."

So for the raved translation to be accurate, it would have to be the spirit of an evil god.

Unless someone can show me why it isn't accurate, I'm going to say that the spirit of an evil god came upon Saul, causing him to act as a false prophet, and attack David.

Looking at 1 Sam 16:14, I notice that word translated from after departed is me'im while the from before Yahuweh is me'eth. Knowing Yahuweh two different words was probably used because two different concepts where being conveyed. I'm going to look into these words a little more, and will post what I find.


appending

the first word is Mem Aiyn Mem
the second word is Mem Alef Taw

they are both compound words, the first being Min and im and the second being Min and Eth

Now Min is usually from, but can mean because of, made of, by means of, part of or on account of

im and Eth can both be rendered with, but each has other possible meanings.

If you where to render them both the same "from with" then the spirit of Yahweh departed from with Saul, with the implication being 'being with' and then he was tormented by an evil spirit, from with Yahweh.

Again I think that since different words where used different translations should be done. Since the first makes complete sense, that Yahweh's spirit would depart from being with Soul, I'm apt to bet that the second is not being rendered correct.

I think that since an acceptable and proper rendering of Eth is according to, and it is the only definition of Eth that does not correspond to a definition of im. In other words most of there definitions are the same, but Eth can mean according to, and im can not.
And min can be on account of.

I would say here that it is saying that Saul was tormented by an evil spirit on account of and according to Yahuweh.

But this was only based on a 20 min study, so I could be wrong.

Edited by user Thursday, November 19, 2009 2:16:53 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I asked KP and Yada so I want to find out what there take is on it. Meanwhile I am still checking out that difference in me et and me im. thanks

Thank you KP.
For some reason I was stuck thinking that it was saying that the evil tormenting spirit was of Yahweh (part of Yahweh) as oppose to coming from and being directed by Yahweh. I don't know why I was not making the connection in the English translation but I definitely knew that what I was thinking was wrong. For some reason I thought that evil could not be in the presence of Yahweh but I understand that is not true. Satan was accusing Job in Yahweh presence and directed what he could and could not do. I guess for some cultural reason I picture evil as literal darkness and Yahweh as light. I guess this is great to get to know Yahweh better. There is a lot more I need to learn.

Y'know, all afternoon, I've been totally bummed out. First came the realization that Yahweh cared enough about the welfare of Israel to send an "evil spirit" to distract Saul so he could only do minimal damage while "in office." Then Yada and I chatted on BlogTalk Radio about how Isaiah 18 reveals that God intends to "prune back" America before the harvest (read: the rapture). And call me covetous, but I'm a little jealous. I mean, I love my country. We've been good for each other. And now it's being dismantled brick by friggin' brick by our own elected leaders---in other words, it's being pruned back with a power tool, right before our eyes, all because THE MAJORITY has told Yahweh to take a long walk off a short pier (or they would have, if they knew God's name). Why can't Yah send an evil spirit on Washington, so our elected Bozos can't destroy us quite so quickly?

Sorry, I just had to vent. I really do know that Abba's got this whole thing under control.

kp

Oooo. Scary. Yeah, that might work. Not Bush, though. That would be cruel and unusual.

kp