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Offline Marcus  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, October 20, 2009 10:46:18 AM(UTC)
Marcus
Joined: 9/8/2009(UTC)
Posts: 93
Location: NY

Yowel made a statement the other day that to me was very profound.

"Yahweh is the one that creates the standard for perfection".

We as in (humanity) are always trying to define perfection in our eyes. What we with our limited consciousness can define as perfect and then we try to give God those qualities. Instead of finding out what God's definition of perfect is.
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, October 20, 2009 11:54:02 AM(UTC)
Robskiwarrior
Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,470
Man
Location: England

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Marcus wrote:

We as in (humanity) are always trying to define perfection in our eyes. What we with our limited consciousness can define as perfect and then we try to give God those qualities. Instead of finding out what God's definition of perfect is.



Well this is actually very interesting, something J&M speak about a lot, and I agree with what I have heard, that we as humans have our knowledge of good and evil, but we must grow to understand and rely on Yah's knowledge of good and evil...

I'm sure J&M can give you a better run down :)
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline RidesWithYah  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, October 20, 2009 11:58:36 AM(UTC)
RidesWithYah
Joined: 6/10/2008(UTC)
Posts: 331

Matthew 19:16-23 (Please pardon my KJV)

And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, October 20, 2009 12:14:23 PM(UTC)
Robskiwarrior
Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,470
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Location: England

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Pardon my Swalch

Quote:


*And behold, look and see! Having come and approached, turned and drawn near to Him, a certain one said, “Teacher, Master and Instructor, you who teaches concerning the things of the Supreme One: which or what good and pleasant, excellent and distinguished, useful and right, beneficial and fine, perfect and fitting, upright and worthy, admirable and satisfactory, dependable and pure, virtuous and honourable thing may I do or perform, accomplish or execute, practise or bring about, undertake or create, keep or carry out, construct or establish, form or produce, appoint or ordain, celebrate or constitute so that and in order that I may have and hold, acquire and receive, own and possess eternal and never ending, everlasting and perpetual life and continued existence?” So He said to him, “Why and for what reason do you ask and beg, entreat and question, request, enquire and beseech me about and concerning, regarding and on account of, because of and with respect to that which is good and pleasant, excellent and distinguished, useful and right, beneficial and fine, perfect and fitting, upright and worthy, admirable and satisfactory, dependable and pure, virtuous and honourable? There is only One Who is and exists as good and pleasant, excellent and distinguished, useful and right, beneficial and fine, perfect and fitting, upright and worthy, admirable and satisfactory, dependable and pure, virtuous and honourable. But nevertheless, if you want and wish, prefer and aim, intend, will and desire to enter and go into that life and continued existence of which you speak, keep and guard, hold on to and retain, attend to and maintain, keep an eye on and watch over, preserve and protect the charges and precepts, injunctions and prescribed rules, mandates and orders, regulations and commissions.” He, the man, says and teaches, maintains and affirms, directs and exhorts, advises and points out to Him, “Which ones?” And Yahushua* said to him, “‘You will not kill, slay or murder; you will not commit adultery, never having unlawful intercourse with someone else’s wife; you will not steal or cheat, deceive or beguile, secretly embezzle or craftily take away, subterfuge or treacherously whisper malicious rumours, clandestinely rob others of their possessions or smuggle and conceal goods; you will not bear false witness or give false testimony, commit perjury or attest untrue things; you will not defraud or rob, deprave or withhold, deny and refuse to give payment, value and honour, support, respect and revere your father* and your mother,’ * (from Ex 20:12-16; Deut 5:16-20) and ‘You shall dearly love and welcome, entertain, look fondly upon and cherish your neighbour with strong affection and highly esteem them with great favour, goodwill and benevolence, be loyal to and greatly adore them as, like and similar to the way you do yourself.’ * (from Lev 19:18) ” The young man says and teaches, maintains and affirms, directs and exhorts, advises and points out to Him, “All these individually and collectively I have kept and guarded, held on to and retained, attended to and maintained, kept an eye on and watched over, preserved and protected. Which and what then do I still and yet lack and miss, fail to reach and have come short of, fallen short of and have been excluded from?” Yahushua* said and affirmed, asserted and declared His thoughts to him, “If you want and wish, prefer and aim, intend, will and desire to be and exist as full and complete, perfect and whole, successful and developed, genuine and true, valid and established, go away and depart, withdraw and proceed on your journey and sell and exchange, give up and trade your possessions and wealth, goods and property, and give and grant, supply and furnish, bestow and deliver, commit and permit, extend and present them to the poor and needy, those lacking their necessities and so are dependent on others for support, and you shall have and hold, acquire and receive, own and possess treasure and valuables, wealth and riches within and inside the heavens, the abode of the Supreme One, and then come here, to this place, to accompany and follow after, obey and join yourself to Me.” But nevertheless, having heard and attended to, considered and understood, comprehended and perceived, paid attention to and listened to this word and saying, message and statement, declaration and thought, instruction and teaching, decree, mandate and matter, the young man went off and departed, left and proceeded to go away, being grieved and pained, distressed and vexed, harassed and irritated, annoyed and afflicted, for the reason that he was and existed as one who had and held, acquired and received, owned and possessed many numerous and large amounts of acquisitions and possessions, property and wealth. So Yahushua* said to His disciples and followers, pupils and learners, apprentices and adherents, “Yes, truly this is a firm and reliable statement of truth: I say and teach, maintain and affirm, direct and exhort, advise and point out to you that concerning this, the rich and wealthy people abounding in materials and resources shall go and enter into the kingdom and royal power, dominion and rule, kingship, reign and authority of the heavens, the abode of the Supreme One with difficulty and will find it hard and troublesome. And again, anew and furthermore I say and teach, maintain and affirm, direct and exhort, advise and point out to you all: it is and exists as easier labour for a camel to go and pass, travel and journey through and via the eye and hole of a needle than for a rich and wealthy person abounding in materials and resources to go and enter into the kingdom and royal power, dominion and rule, kingship, reign and authority of God*.”

Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline J&M  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, October 21, 2009 3:38:35 AM(UTC)
J&M
Joined: 9/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 234
Location: Eretz Ha'Quodesh

For interest, this is what I wrote in Oct 2007 (with a little editing):-

Of the happenings in Eden, the one that is nearly always glossed over is exactly what knowledge of good and evil did to Adam.

Before eating of the tree, Adam was imbued with the breath (life) of YHWH. Like YHWH he had nesama (conscience?) which at this point gave him an intimate indication of YHWH's opinion in any choice he (Adam) made. Adam's conscience was 'advised and directed' acording to YHWH's righteousness (knowledge of good and evil)

Adam was set up by satan with a very nasty choice; wife or Yahweh.

Gleaning what I can from satan's words, acknowledging that there was deceipt in them, but also accepting that the best deceipts are almost true, eating the fruit substituted YHWH's influence over concience with a personal man centred (physical not spiritual) influence.

So before the fall Adam had YHWH's guidance always at hand, post fall he only had his own judgement, and consiousness of the physical world around him. He was no longer spiritually aware of YHWH (they could now only hear him physically).

His conscience was not anahilated, but it was now a tool of his own imperfect and physical knowledge of good and evil.

When Yahushua was nailed to the stauros, at the appointed time His connection to Yahweh and the Ruarch Quodesh were severed, for he took on the sin of the world. But he retained his perfect knowledge of Good and Evil so he knew what to do next. Because of this Death had no hold on him, he could not be separated from Yahweh permanently. As soon as the punishment for the sin had been meted out and fulfilled, he was automatically back in YHWH's Kingdom and YHWH's righteousness.

In Ephesians 6 we read that we deal not with flesh and blood, but with the powers and the principalities of the earth and of darkness. The conscience was designed by YHWH to be a guide along His WAY, severed from YHWH the conscience allows mankind to choose his own path subject to his own judgement, unfortunately man's judgement is notably corrupted, both by the things of earth, and by undesirable spiritual things.

Yehoshua invites us to seek to become members of the Kingdom of YHWH. It is difficult in this age of democracy to understand kingship: A person who has the undisputed and unaccountable right of life and death over his/her subjects. Where, if one chooses to be loyal, one might be rewarded, but for anything else, including the whim of the monarch, one's life is forfeit, fair or unfair it is of no consequence.

To be a member of the Kingdom of YHWH, we choose to put ourselves into his care, accepting his covenant that he will care for us as a Father (but also accepting his right to unaccountability as a King).

Alongside of the invitation to become a member of the Kingdom of YHWH, we get the invitation to participate in His righteousness - the two go together. YHWH's righteousnes is His Knowledge of Good and Evil. We are to seek Yahweh's knowledge of good and evil rather than our own.

As fallen men and women, our knowledge of good and evil sits over our conscience dominationg our decision making processes, it is so embedded within our psyche that it is totally part of our character and consciousness. TRUE Scripture gives us guidance (thank-you YY); and an acurate comprehension of scripture is our main tool in the search for Yahweh's righteousness.

Paul tells us not to be conformed, but to be transformed. If I decide, with my knowledge of good and evil, to become part of the kingdom of god, to be a good person, I then start to conform to the rules and become a good jew or a good christian or a good moslem. To my knowledge of good and evil there is not much difference, religion is much the same wherever and whatever.

If I am transformed, I am changed by an outside agency, and in this case Paul is referring to the Ruarch Quodesh - the set apart (Holy) Spirit. Having been cleansed of the mire of sin by the gift of Yahushua, I am now able to be a dwelling place of the Most High in the form of his Set apart Spirit. If I allow Her, She will indwell me and transform me to YHWH's image, She will deal with my knowledge of good and evil, replacing it with YHWH's. I will be truly reborn from above.

As Jeremiah says 'I will put my law in their inward parts and write it in their hearts' Jer 31 v33
Offline J&M  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, October 21, 2009 3:58:05 AM(UTC)
J&M
Joined: 9/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 234
Location: Eretz Ha'Quodesh

Since writing the above, I have come into further revelation about how 'knowledge of good and evil' is the fulcrum of a walk with Yehovah, the great confusion of Christianity is the translation of the word 'nomos' as law with the implication of Torah.

Kittle gives 63 pages of small print on the word 'nomos' and curiously enough it can mean 'good and evil' so when Paul (in Romans) talks about the law of sin and death' and the 'law of the spirit of life' he is not talking about old and new testaments as is common Christian tradition, he is refering to man's knowledge of good and evil as opposed to YHWH's knowledge of good and evil.

Thus the 'Old Man' is me when I use MY knowledge of good and evil......

So Paul does not advocate the abandonment of Torah, he advocates the abandonment of Man's knowledge of good and evil. Sorry Mr Christian, you must drop christmas and ishtar oops did I mean easter? and keep Pesach and Succot.

If you are interested in Knowledge of Good and Evil then have a look at the website at http://www.uprightpole.com which I have been working on for the last two years.
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