Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,470 Location: England Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
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Although I do not have time atm to look though it all - I will - but the what we first must do is step back and see who Paul was writing to, from where and if we can why. I can see, thanks to swalchy's notes, that there are quite a few changes around here, mainly because its talking about "The Law" - and magically words seem to be removed and added as soon as you start encroaching on Christian doctrine. We now have to ask - what does Yahuweh say about his Torah, well we know He is quite pro, also that Yahushua as you have stated said he did not come to abolish or remove even the smallest... So then we have to then think, even without looking at the Greek it seems Paul is contradicting what Yahushua said in that huge statement He made. So do we trust Paul, or do we trust Yahushua? Looking into the Greek, I have not got time atm, and I'm not very fast at it - but here is swalchy's amplification: Quote: Therefore, for this reason and for this purpose, remember and be mindful of, recall and keep in mind that concerning this, once and formerly in a previous time you Gentile nations and races by flesh, those said and taught, maintained and advised, directed and affirmed, exhorted and pointed out as "the Uncircumcision" by those said and taught, maintained and advised, directed and affirmed, exhorted and pointed out as "the circumcision" made and brought about in the flesh by the hands of men, concerning that you were and once existed at that one certain age, season and time as separate from and without, apart from, independent from and without a relationship with Messiah*, estranged and excluded, alienated and shut out from the state, citizenship and commonwealth of Yisra'el*, those that strive with the Supreme One, and strangers and foreigners, aliens and those without a share in the covenants and agreements, treaties and testaments, dispositions and arrangements, compacts and contracts of the promise and gracious pledge, offer and vow, not having or holding, owning or possessing, obtaining or gaining, acquiring or receiving the hope, the expectation, confidence and trust in the future prospect of salvation and without and neglectful of the Supreme One, without a relationship with the Supreme One and without any sort of reason in, by and with the world and cosmos, the entire realm of man. But nevertheless, now, at this present time, in, by and with Messiah* Yahushua*, you who once and formerly in a previous time used to be and exist far away and a long way off came to be and became established, arrived and were brought near and close at hand in, by and with the life-blood of Messiah*. For He Himself is our exemption from chaos, our peace and tranquillity, harmony and concord, security and safety, prosperity and freedom, felicity and our assurance of salvation, He who made and created, formed and produced, appointed and ordained, prepared and constituted, manufactured and established, accomplished and caused both us and you to be One, and He who has loosened and unbound, annulled and dismissed, released and broken down, destroyed and abolished, dispersed and invalidated the partition, obstacle and dividing wall of the hedge, wall and fence that separates and prevents people from joining together, having destroyed and abolished, invalidated and put an end to, rendered useless and ineffective, idle and inactive, severed and terminated in, by and with His flesh the enmity, hostility and hatred created by this law and commandment, custom and rule, tradition and order, statue and ordinance of charges and precepts, injunctions and prescribed rules, mandates and orders, regulations and commissions, so that and in order that in, by and with Himself He might create and produce, form and make the two into one common man*, making and executing, producing and performing, constructing and forming, keeping and establishing, accomplishing and bringing about exemption from chaos, this being peace and tranquillity, harmony and concord, security and safety, prosperity and freedom, felicity and the assurance of salvation, and so He might completely reconcile and bring both us and you together to God* in, by and with one body and physical presence through the means of and on the grounds of, on account of and for the reason of, on the basis of and because of the upright stake*, having separated and terminated, destroyed and extinguished, segregated and done away with, abolished and put the enmity, hostility and hatred to death and caused it to perish in Himself. “And He came and arrived, arose and appeared to declare and proclaim, bring and tell, announce and communicate exemption from chaos, this being peace and tranquillity, harmony and concord, security and safety, prosperity and freedom, felicity and the assurance of salvation to you who were far away and a long way off and exemption from chaos, this being peace and tranquillity, harmony and concord, security and safety, prosperity and freedom, felicity and the assurance of salvation to those who were near and at hand,” * for concerning this, through the means of and on the grounds of, on account of and for the reason of, on the basis of and because of Him both us and you have and hold, obtain and gain, acquire and receive, own and posses in, by and with one Spirit* the access and privilege to have a relationship with the Father*.
What is interesting is this leads directly on to Yahushua as the Cornerstone - and a simple game of join the dots reveals quite a lot here... Who is Yahushua? The Word, which is also the Cornerstone or Foundation - the most important stone in the building. The Word is Torah. Its all connected. So saying that the Messiah removed the Torah, is basically saying that He removed Himself. Also it needs to be noted that we are told to Understand and Acknowledge Torah, rather than keep it as a strict set of rules. We do keep it as best we can to a) set ourself's apart visibly, symbolising our spiritual separation from the Word and our joining with Yahuweh, b) Because we love our Father and He gave us them not only for our understanding, but blessing. c) I just lost my train of thought because of my son... lol Anyway Paul is either wrong or God is. Or the translation has been tampered with and Paul's point lost because of context being removed. Paul likes to write long sentences to make a point, he also seems to have a sarcastic streak, so verses and chapters - which were never in the original text or even the copies, really play havoc with the context too. I have babbled on enough without making any real attempt at "disproving" that ridiculous site lol |