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Offline Theophilus  
#1 Posted : Sunday, July 29, 2007 8:06:06 AM(UTC)
Theophilus
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I appreciate that YY provides the calculations both for Gensis creation time and Daniel 9 weeks prophecy. I have encountered other similar calculations that come as close to 32 CE, but am curious how the days of the week are determined as this would be significant to dating the events?

I realize that the Gregorian /Julian calendars periodically were adjusted to keep the seasons consistant with the seasons as these were not 365.25 days long originally. To my knoweldge the seven days of the week have remained unchanged at least by the Jews / Yahudym since ancient times. What I'd like to know is what calculation is used to determine the days of the week for 33 CE and surrounding years?

Offline Jeannie  
#2 Posted : Sunday, July 29, 2007 10:06:54 AM(UTC)
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Joined: 6/27/2007(UTC)
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Location: Florida

Theo, in kp's FH he talks about it and in chapter 7 God's Timetable he lays some out if that helps.
Offline Theophilus  
#3 Posted : Monday, July 30, 2007 6:41:50 AM(UTC)
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Thank you for the tip Jeannie, I re-read chapter 7 of FH and see that like YY the calculation is provided to count the days of Daniel's weeks prophecy that arrive at the days before the Passover of 33 CE to be the time frame of when Daniel was told Messiyah the prince would come (and be known to the people of Jerusalem). I read another author who using a similiar caluation and I believe the same number of days (I'll have to check to be sure if the days count matches) believes the days before the Passover of 32 CE to be correct. I'll speculate that the other author concluded that the day of the week should be a (Palm) Sunday 32 CE, rather than a Branch Monday in 33 CE.

Either way I'm hoping to learn how the calulations were made to determine what day of the week it was on an ancient calender to help settle for the curious the verification for just what year this event actually took place. That is if we know the date for the passover in each of the sorrounding years, then determining then conclusively calulating the day of the week that it fell on would verifiably support just which year the event took place in.

I realize that YY tells us what day of the week it was in the sorrounding years but would love to know how he was able to accurately calulate this? I'm guessing that it may be a simple aritmatic formula, but I've not been able to figure it ot yet and it bothers me that I've not been succcessful so far.
Offline kp  
#4 Posted : Monday, July 30, 2007 3:31:08 PM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

We all owe a great debt of gratitude to Sir Robert Anderson of Scotland Yard for first calculating where the "seventy sevens" of Daniel 9 began and concluded. He was right in that exactly 173,880 days would pass from the starting gun to the conclusion. What Sir Robert didn't know was a bit of historical drama that had not been discovered when he wrote his classic The Coming Prince. His starting bell was one year off. Here's what I discovered:

Quote:
Most scholars (including the esteemed Sir Robert Anderson, whom I believe was the first to calculate this) peg the twentieth year of Artaxerxes at 445 B.C. It’s simple arithmetic. His father, Xerxes (a.k.a. Ahasuerus, husband of Queen Esther) died in 465; add twenty years to that and you come to 445. But they fail to take into account the little drama that transpired following the death (okay, murder) of Xerxes. The king had been killed in his sleep by an ambitious fellow named Artabanus, the king’s vizier or bodyguard, who also (according to Aristotle) killed the heir apparent, Darius. Another royal son, Hustapis, was out of the country, safe for the moment. That left Artaxerxes, a mere teenager at the time. Artabanus left him alive, figuring he could rule through him as regent. Then, seven months later, he changed his mind and tried to kill him, too. But as luck would have it, the lad killed Artabanus instead. Hustapis showed up shortly thereafter and tried to claim the throne, so Artaxerxes killed him as well. These guys needed a Constitution in the worst way. Anyway, all this maneuvering took the better part of a year: thus Artie wasn’t able to assume the throne until 464. That would make the starting date of Daniel’s prophecy the 1st of Nisan, 444 B.C.


By the way, the 10th of Nisan (Palm "Sunday"---the date of the triumphal entry) fell on a Thursday in 32. Oops.

kp
Offline Theophilus  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, July 31, 2007 5:50:47 AM(UTC)
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I'm impressed that Sir Robert Anderson was able to calculate the actual number of days needed to count for Daniel's weeks prophecy. This has been well explained but unfortunately is not my question.

What I've been attempting to ask is how are the actual days of the week accurately determined for Nissan for the year in the Gregorian calender of 33 CE? That is, if there a calculation used to determine what day of the week an ancient day landed on? For instance how do we know that 10 Nissan 32 CE was a Thursay and not say a Monday?

It seems that most Christians agree that Messiyah was crucified on a Friday, a Passover day, and appeared alive to his disciples on the following Sunday, and I'm guessing many(errantly) date this event to 30 CE. Others propose different dates such as 32 CE. If we can independently determine the day Passover occured in that range and again independently determine the day of the week it fell on, hence a Passover that fell on the sixth day of the week (Friday), then this should settle the matter. So I ask how does one accurately calculate the days of the week for these ancient years, or even determine when Passover fell and convert the date between calendars?

It appears to me YY must have determined a way to do this and I was hoping to learn this method? I've determined that for our modern calendar the day of the week shifts back a day each year and falls back an extra day every leap year. So if we wanted to determine the day of the week for 1 April 33 CE, how could we do that?

In my quest I have just come across an interesting website http://calendarhome.com that I checked and shows April 1st 33 CE to fall on a Wednesday. I am suspicious of this site's methodology as when I checked April 1, 1601 it showed this to be a Wednesday whereas Outlook showed a Sunday for the same date? I'm guessing there must be some difference even the leap year day does not catch and I'm not sure how this is accounted for? For the curious calendarhome's 10,000 year calendar shows "Palm Sunday" to be April 5th, "Good Friday" to be April 10th, and "Easter Sunday" to be April 12th for 33 CE. Again I'm not clear on that websites methodology.

Curiously the link from calendarhome.com when one clicks on "Good Friday" goes to the wikipedia articles which states in part:

Quote:
Jesus's [Yahushua's] possible death date
Using the data in the Gospels and other sources to calculate the date of Christ's [Messiyah's] death is not a simple matter.

It is believed by many to have occurred on a Friday evening in April. It would seem that there was a coincidence: at that time the constellation of Southern Cross was entirely visible low in the South from Jerusalem. Due to precession this is no longer the case. The most probable date is 3 April AD 33. A partial lunar eclipse also took place on this date.


As an interesting note, I checked the site's date converter and found that 14 Nisan 3793 on their Hebrew calendar which according to this site the Gregorian date would be Thursday April 2, 33 CE. I remain cautious because in testing dates back and forth between the Hebrew and Gregorian in their converter, the days and dates seem to fluxuate somewhat and even presents days and dates that differ as compared to the sites at a glance or printable calendars. Very curious. I'm still hoping that this matter can be conclusively resolved.
Offline kp  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, July 31, 2007 7:11:51 AM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

The online Hebrew date-converter calendar I've been using lately is found at http://www.hebcal.com/hebcal/. I used to use a good one at http://www.bayt.org/calendar/, but it's no longer available. But they agreed wherever I checked them. http://www.hebrewcalendar.net/ agrees as well: erev pesach, the 14th day of Nisan, 33 AD, fell on a Friday (actually, beginning at sundown the previous evening). http://www.abdicate.net also agrees, but it's not as easy to use, generating only one date at a time, rather than a full month's calendar. Several other calendar converters only cover a limited range of years, making them useless for our purposes.

The reason all these ancient calendar converters agree is that the Hebrew calendar was lunar-based. Every month began at the first sighting of the new moon---something that is relatively easy for an astronomer to calculate for past years. Nisan, the first month of the Hebrew calendar, began at the new moon closest to the vernal equinox. The Gregorian date is totally beside the point, except to give us who have always lived with that system a more visceral feel for the time of year.

kp
Offline Theophilus  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, July 31, 2007 8:16:13 AM(UTC)
Theophilus
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Thanks again KP. I like that the converters you linked to indicate the miqra days as well. I'm still not clear as to why the calendarhome.com month at a glance and wikipedia (possibly that it is based off of) differs by two days but it is good to see that the Hebrew calendar converters agree. I'm also surprised that wikipedia supports a the first Friday in April of 33 CE even if the date differs by two days.

Would the lunar eclipse mentioned be consistant with the lunar phase for Passover or prehaps a lunar eclipse can happen in varying phases? Either way it would seem that what darkened the sky that day was not a solar eclipse.

Offline kp  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, July 31, 2007 6:18:31 PM(UTC)
kp
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Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

Seems to me that I read somewhere that the Julian calendar and the Gregorian were off by two days in the Spring of 33. Maybe that's where the confusion is happening---they're looking for April 1, not the 14th of Nisan. Just a thought.

Neither a lunar nor solar eclipse would account for the prolonged darkness documented in the Gospels. Darkness due to an eclipse lasts only a few minutes. We needn't bother tying our chronology to whether or not an eclipse occurred on the afternoon of Friday, the 14th of Nisan, 33 AD. That being said, there was a lunar eclipse on that day, visible in Judea. It's helpful confirmation of the 33 date, but little more.

kp
Offline shohn  
#9 Posted : Friday, August 10, 2007 11:33:00 AM(UTC)
shohn
Joined: 7/24/2007(UTC)
Posts: 160
Location: Texas

I once read somewhere that the Hebrew calendar may be off by ~200 years. Is there any validity to that? I've read a number of different viewpoints, but didn't really come to a satisfactory conclusion.
--
Shohn of Texas
Offline kp  
#10 Posted : Friday, August 10, 2007 3:51:24 PM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

If our observations are correct that Yahshua will set up His Millennial Kingdom in 2033 (See the Future History Appendix: Prophetic Chronology Chart for the assumptions I've made to arrive at that date) then on God's calendar our year 2033 CE = 6000 (the beginning of the seventh and last Millennium of man). That would make the present year 5974 on God's calendar. According to the Jewish calendar, we are now in the year 5767. That means that (If I'm right) they're off by 207 years. (And the Gregorian calendar is off by 3967 years!)

Remember, our New Year's day, January 1, is all wrong. Yahweh placed it on the first day of Nisan (in our March or April). One other wrinkle: modern Jews begin their year (the numbering, that is) on their phoney baloney Rosh Hashanah (the "Head of the Year" they picked up in Babylon). So whereas "next year" ought to start in the spring of our 2008, their year 5768 will, according to modern rabbinical reckoning, begin on the 13th of September this year.

Confused yet?

kp
Offline Koos  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, August 22, 2007 9:11:28 AM(UTC)
Koos
Joined: 6/30/2007(UTC)
Posts: 22
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Location: Vaal Triangle South Africa

Ken Power, I just want to thank you for a wondeful book. I have just finished it and have printed it out and will give it to someone as a valuable gift. I can just say that if we are wrong and there is no rapture, we are in for a ... , well, I do'nt want to think of it. It is because of Paul who skips a step or two when he explained the Coming of our King, that I some how have this uneasy feeling. I trust Yahuweh completely, it is just our interpretation of things which sometimes might be off the mark. But your and Yada's reasoning seem to be sound, based on scripture, the Word - what more can we expect? I can not wait for the miqra of trumpets this year, our first celebration. Since having read YadaYaweh we start keeping the Sabbath and will also keep the miqra. My wife has specially taken leave for the days of teruah and reconciliations!! We look forward to it.
In the mean time we will also start with The Owners Manual which I have also printed out.
Yah bless you. I feel as if I know you, having read your In the company of good and ... etc.
I also get the feeling that you and Yada are more joined to the hip than what we suspect. Reading Future History sounded so familiar in "words" and "spirit".
You people really contributed to our increased love of Yahuweh/Yahushua. I never thought that I would really come to love the Old Covenant God. If He were here now in the room with me physically, I would HUG Him and kiss Him on the cheek.
Bless you guys.
Koos
Offline kp  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, August 22, 2007 10:35:30 AM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

Hi, Koos, and thanks for your wonderful assessment of what Yahweh can do through a couple of average guys with a willing spirit and time on their hands. Yada and I live in neighboring counties, worked together for a decade, toured Israel together, and shared the writing chores on two of our books. While we may not agree on absolutely everything, what we don't see eye to eye on isn't worth a postcard home. Such unity and friendship in the shadow of Yahshua's love is a beautiful thing. I've learned a lot from him, and it's possible the influence hasn't been all one way. And as we've both concluded (quite independently), Yahweh is so thorough and so consistent, we're sure we've got the big picture right. When the Word tells you the way it is forty times in thirty different ways, you'd have to be blind to miss the message. We're merely pointing out the obvious.

Anyway, thanks. Hope you enjoy The Owner's Manual. Consider yourself hugged back.

kp
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