 Joined: 10/3/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,191  Location: São Paulo, Brazil Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 2 post(s)
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I like your post Heretic Steve and many of those questions bother me too. My posts, or I think so, is more do with the black and white issues: those who continue to Yahweh to the end, and those who "have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, (Hebrews 6:4b-5)" and then fall away, but I mean complete falling away, not wishing to return. Hebrews 6:4-12 (NIV) wrote:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.
9 Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are confident of better things in your case—things that accompany salvation. 10 God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them. 11 We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, in order to make your hope sure. 12 We do not want you to become lazy, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised. Originally Posted by: Swalchy'  For the reason that it is impossible and incapable for those who have once and formerly in an earlier time been enlightened and illuminated, made clear and imparted with the ability to understand, as they have tasted and experienced, partaken in, taken nourishment from and have come to know both the gift, present and offering of the heavenly places and have come to be and exist, arise and appear as sharers and partakers, participators and companions, partners and fellow workers of the Set-apart and cleansed Spirit*From the placeholder ΠΝΣ, and have tasted and experienced, partaken in, taken nourishment from and have come to know the goodness and pleasantness, excellence and fineness, usefulness and benefit, niceness and salutariness, uprightness and worthiness, admirableness and commendableness, preciousness and genuineness, flawlessness and loveliness, virtuousness, beautifulness and honourableness of God’s*From the placeholder ΘΥ word and saying, statement and message, proclamation and subject matter and the authorities and powers, right and ability, permissions and freedoms, energies, forces and influences of the intended and destined, inevitable and future ages, times and eras, and then deliberately erring and sinning, slipping and falling away, being led astray and lapsing, willingly abandoning and wandering away from the truth, to renew and restore them again, anew and furthermore towards a changed mind and different way of thing, amending their life and attitude, reconsidering and having feelings of compunction, abhorring and repenting of past sins. They are personally crucifying*From the placeholder ΣΤΡΕΣ and impaling the Son*From the placeholder ΥΙΝ of God*From the placeholder ΘΥ again themselves for their own harm, and disgracing, exposing and making an example of Him publically. For the reason that the earth and land, ground and region, having drunk, soaked up and absorbed the rain water that often and frequently at many times comes, appears and arises upon it and brings forth and bears, yields and produces a crop and vegetation that is fit and useful, suitable and valuable, well placed and well arranged for those through the means of and on the grounds of, on account of and for the reason of, on the basis of and because of which it is also farmed and cultivated, then receives and seizes, grasps and ascertains, takes and collects, acquires and obtains, chooses and selects, accepts, claims and procures a share in the blessing and benediction, benefit and gift from God*From the placeholder ΘΥ; but nevertheless, bring out and bearing, producing and upholding thorns, brambles and thistles, briars and burrs, it is therefore unfit and fake, untrustworthy and unreliable, false and unapproved, unqualified and worthless and near to and close to being cursed, execrated and imprecated, whose end and goal, aim and purpose, outcome, result and conclusion is towards being burned and consumed by fire. I think we should also consider Romans 11:17-24: Quote:17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree! It's not a matter of works to salvation, but a matter of continuing in the good fight even if we slip up many times a day against those who willingly and willfully reject God even after having entered into a relationship with Him before. The latter are pulled out because of unbelief, the same as Israel were, this should be read with John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."Yes David made some serious blunders, serious lapses in judgement, but he always returned and was pretty quick to repent, I don't think there was ever a time he was in a status of "unsaved" but was always "saved." If we continue in the Walk then our salvation is sure, if we turn our backs, or should I say completely and utterly turn our backs not wanting to be with Yahweh then we are in serious danger of being cut off. I agree with Robski's post as well in that it's about actively pursuing a relationship with Yah against walking away from it.
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