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Offline In His Name  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, December 30, 2008 8:23:00 PM(UTC)
In His Name
Joined: 9/7/2008(UTC)
Posts: 550

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
From YY:GENESIS:BERIYTH
Quote:
The story that continues to unfold is the most compelling ever written. It is literally, the greatest story ever told. In their fourth meeting, “When ‘Abram was ninety-nine years old, Yahuweh appeared (ra’ah - revealed himself and was seen) as God to (‘el) ‘Abram and said, ‘I Am (‘aniy) God (‘el) Almighty (shadday - the most powerful). Walk (halak - come and go, travel, journey, come to exist, live, and engage) in My presence (paniym - turning toward and approaching Me, existing by My side, living face to face, paying attention to, considering, and respecting Me). Exist (hayah - be) upright in accord with the truth (tamiym - continue into perpetuity showing integrity and truthfulness, be complete, healthy, impeccable and unimpaired by holding fast to Me for support, become innocent). And I will give as a gift (natan - grant a reward, bestow a present, ascribe, and entrust, devote and dedicate, even pay for and provide) My Covenant Relationship (beriyth - alliance, agreement, vow of marriage, constitution, compact, treaty, binding oath of friendship, and partnership) between (beyn - within, among and in the midst of) Me and you. And I will cause you to increase and to thrive, multiplying your (rabah - making you exceedingly great in) power and strength (ma’od - energy and force).’” (Genesis 17:1-2)


I just reread this this section today and found it very moving and meaningful. Contemplating the amplified text brings so much life and love into this:
"Walk with Me, live with Me, journey with Me; Turn to Me, approach Me, Be with Me side by side, face to face; hold on to Me for support; become innocent; and I will give My vow of friendship between Me and you"...

How Awesome is that !!
“Because he clings to Me, is joined to Me, loves and delights in Me, desires Me, therefore I will deliver him, carry him safely away, cause him to escape from harm making him inaccessible and strong, and delivering him safely to heaven, because he has known, observed, cared for, recognized, instructed and advised others to use, designated, acknowledged, discerned, answered in, My name, authority, character, report, mark, and nature." Psalm 91:14
Offline In His Name  
#2 Posted : Thursday, January 1, 2009 6:41:04 PM(UTC)
In His Name
Joined: 9/7/2008(UTC)
Posts: 550

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Bear with me as I try to understand this Covenant thing better. It would be easier to say we are all grafted onto the same tree and are all of the same family and all have the same deal, but there seems to be two (three counting Ishmael’s seed) parts to the Covenant.

These verses seem to describe the Gentile (gowyum) relationship, abundant affluent, rich, adored and blessed:
Quote:
(Genesis 12:2) - “I will make of you a great, mighty, powerful, and abundant, even affluent nation of people I will kneel down and adore you . ” “I will nurture and magnify through your name. You shall exist as the voice of excellence, as the vow which promotes prosperity and peace, as the oath which blesses.” (Genesis 12:3) - “...and I will recede from, slight, trifle with, and him who curses you.” “And through you all the families and classes of people of the earth shall be adored and blessed’” (Genesis 17:3-4) - “Then ‘Abram fell in His presence, and God spoke to him, saying: ‘Here I Am, look at Me. I have a Covenant Relationship with you. And you shall be a father of exceedingly rich Gentiles.” (Genesis 17:5) - “No longer shall your name be called ‘Abram, but your proper and personal name shall be ‘Abraham. For I have given you the designation of father of the exceedingly rich Gentiles.” (Genesis 17:6) - “I will make you exceedingly fruitful. And I will entrust you to the Gentiles and there will be kingdoms produced because of you.”


Then the verses that describe Abraham’s seed/offspring (zera) relationship, land, blessed and joyous relationship, eternal and everlasting:
Quote:
(Genesis 12:7) - “Then Yahuweh appeared to ‘Abram. He said your seed I give this land. So he built an altar there to Yahuweh who had appeared to him.” (Genesis 15:7) - “Then He affirmed to him, ‘I am Yahuweh who for the purpose of a blessed and joyous relationship asked you to come out of ‘Ur of the Kasdym to give you this land as an inheritance.’” (Genesis 15:13) – “Yahuweh said to ‘Abram, ‘Know and be known. Be aware of and acknowledge that your seed will exist as aliens in a land which isn’t theirs, reduced to servitude there, and they will be afflicted for four-hundred years.” (Genesis 15:14) - “But that Gentile nation which will reduce them to servitude, I will judge. And afterward, they shall come out with important possessions.” (Genesis 15:16) - “And they shall return home here in the fourth generation because indeed the iniquity, perversity, and depravity of the ‘Amoriy is not yet finished or complete.” (Genesis 17:7) - “I will stand up and establish My Covenant Relationship between Me and you, and between Me and your offspring after you in their dwelling places and generations , for an eternal and everlasting Covenant Relationship, existing yesterday, today, and tomorrow on behalf of and according to God and your offspring after you.”


And there is this verse which doesn’t seem to make sense as Abraham’s seed doesn’t seem to be as numerous as the stars:
Quote:
(Genesis 15:5) - “And He took him outside and said, ‘Look at the heavens and count the number of stars if you are able to grasp the quantity.’ He promised, ‘This will be your seed.’”


Does this make any sense? The verses are addressed to gowyum and zera respectively so there seems to be a separation.

All comments welcome!
“Because he clings to Me, is joined to Me, loves and delights in Me, desires Me, therefore I will deliver him, carry him safely away, cause him to escape from harm making him inaccessible and strong, and delivering him safely to heaven, because he has known, observed, cared for, recognized, instructed and advised others to use, designated, acknowledged, discerned, answered in, My name, authority, character, report, mark, and nature." Psalm 91:14
Offline In His Name  
#3 Posted : Monday, February 2, 2009 7:01:38 AM(UTC)
In His Name
Joined: 9/7/2008(UTC)
Posts: 550

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
While reading the prodigal son story in FH, it occured to me that the story could be read in reverse with the younger (prodigal) son being Israel and the elder son being the ekklesia. I looked for what Yada wrote in YY and he does have a short statement that indicates the story works either way.

The other brother (gowyum) is described as elder (presbuteros). Presbuteros was a name used by the Sanhedrin (YY, Strongs) and so the parable is usually read the traditional way. But it can also relate to Christian; presbyter (Strongs), which would support the reverse interpretation as well.

What led me to think of this was the separation of covenant promises above.

The seed (zera) of Abraham received their inheritance, the Promised Land, then squandered it through their foolish bad behavior. They became weak without their Father’s support and the Land was taken away. When Yahweh returns (as Yahushua) they will return to their Father with a penitent attitude, be forgiven and be renewed in their inheritance. They will then live in their land with Yahshua as their King.

The ekklisia (goyum) have also received their inheritance, relationship. But this is an individual gift, not a gift to the nations. Nations are made one individual at a time. And once received can this gift be squandered away?

I suppose this is of little import, since the story makes sense and is equally powerful on many levels. I think I was drawn to this alternative because it seemed to fit with my findings in post #2.

The part that doesn’t fit for me is the elder son’s (as the ekklesia) resentment at the return of the prodigal (Israel). Most believers I have run into are sympathetic towards Israel and would enjoy their return. Perhaps things will look different after the Tribulation.
“Because he clings to Me, is joined to Me, loves and delights in Me, desires Me, therefore I will deliver him, carry him safely away, cause him to escape from harm making him inaccessible and strong, and delivering him safely to heaven, because he has known, observed, cared for, recognized, instructed and advised others to use, designated, acknowledged, discerned, answered in, My name, authority, character, report, mark, and nature." Psalm 91:14
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