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Offline Robskiwarrior  
#1 Posted : Monday, December 29, 2008 3:25:41 AM(UTC)
Robskiwarrior
Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC)
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Location: England

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How does it happen? How can a Christian sin.

Christian doctrine/theology says that "the Law" is done away with - we don't have to worry about the Old Testament and that it is complete, finished, accomplished, and destroyed, whatever way you want to phrase it.

Torah is the measuring rod isn’t it, we have it to know what Yah thinks and how He wants us to behave at the last, at the most its a beautiful tapestry of prophetic threads woven to tell the story of our relationship with Him. It alone defines what "sin" is, because its a definitive outline of the house rules that Yah has in place.

If we say that these rules are no longer here, then there is no measuring rod, no rules...

So why do Christians think about sin so much? Why do they beat themselves up over how bad they are, or how evil others are? In Christianity its impossible to commit sin, because there is no check list to tick it off against, no rule book, nothing. It was "nailed to the cross" as some like to proclaim.

I’m not saying because people are Christians they would go around killing people who jumped the queue because it didn’t matter, but you would think it would remove the huge guilt most Christians have, and the constant need for repentance.

It’s just really illogical... and I used to think it made sense?! HOW! lol
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline sirgodfrey  
#2 Posted : Monday, December 29, 2008 10:44:03 AM(UTC)
sirgodfrey
Joined: 10/2/2008(UTC)
Posts: 512
Location: North Carolina

Dude I know exactly what it is that you are saying. Now that I have been studyin more and more of Torah I am coming to understand it's significance in the grand scheme of things. I have tried to share some of the material thatbi have been learning and my friends just don't want to embrace it it seems. I've shared truths about dietary law and how Yah is trying to protect us and care for our bodies but somehow it is just seen As some type of bondage to "the law" and the fact that we're "free" from it. I am greatly frustrated with it all and I'm speaking ever so clearly and straight-forward. Tough time in my life because I feel like bonds that were once stronger aren't as strong because I'm not willing to waiver And just settle with the name "Jesus" and be "free from the law." it is all so very frustrating to me. I'm quick to tell ppl now that I don't consider myself a "Christian" but it Is not bothersome to ms because I just can't deal with certain things that Christianity pontificates. I am rambling but this is good for me. Not many at all...actually none it seems understands the path that I'm on. I just wanna love Yahuweh the way He wants to be loved and that includes calling Him by name, diligently searching His scripture for Truth, as well as doing others things that ppl think insane for doing.
Offline Matthew  
#3 Posted : Monday, December 29, 2008 10:52:02 AM(UTC)
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Not really making any constructive comment but I recently got a related response on another forum:

Quote:
Matthew asks "So if 1 commandment of the 10 commandments no longer applies, why not the other 9 as well?" The answer is that the other nine commandments are repeated in the New Testament. It is like a person immigrating to the United States from England. That person is no longer under England's laws, but that doesn't mean he is under no law at all, he is under a new set of laws. That new set of laws for Christians is the New Covenant contained in the New Testament.


This being under grace and being under the law is a tough one to discuss with Christians who believe the Torah was done away with, especially as it applies to being the measuring rod.

It's amazing how one can believe the Law only applies to the unsaved and then also say a believer has been set free from it. Christians believe the Torah is bondage, being enslaved by it, but they forget that He set us free from the bondage of sin, the law of sin.

I love using Romans 7:7 "What, then, shall we say? Is the Torah sin? Let it not be! However, I did not know sin except through the Torah. For also the covetousness I knew not if the Torah had not said, "You shall not covet."" and then list whatever sin is being discussed.
Offline bitnet  
#4 Posted : Monday, December 29, 2008 9:07:35 PM(UTC)
bitnet
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120

Shalom,

The Torah is a guide and a mirror. Without it we have no reference points and everything becomes relative and arbitrary. About 30 years ago I was engaged in a class discussion on promiscuity and I pointed out to the teacher that it is relative to each society. For instance, nudity, I noted, does not necessarily mean promiscuity as several "primitive" societies do not look upon the naked body the same way "religious" (Christian, Muslims, etc) people do. Even today in many modern Western societies and Japan, dressing (or lack thereof) does not reflect much on personal morality. Remember a time in Bali and the Pacific islands, toplessness was not a moral problem until the Christian and Muslim missionaries arrived. Today, the natives are covered up but the Westerners who holiday there are topless. So morality is always relative.

Without a fixed reference point everything becomes relative to the laws of each society. Today, man establishes the law in view of himself and not the Creator. In general, man seems to have a higher opinion of himself than the Creator. We find this across all religions, and the priests and imams and shamans put themselves in a position that usurps the Creator, defining what others should and should not do according to their beliefs. And in the case of secular humanism, even this relativity is lost.

So our fixed reference point is the Torah. There will be some Christians who ask whether the Torah saves us, and today instead of giving the obvious answer I ask if following the laws of the land saves us. It's usually easier to take up the discussion from that point.
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline Bridget  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, December 30, 2008 1:47:34 PM(UTC)
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Quote:
How does it happen? How can a Christian sin.

-robski

When I was a very small child....brought up in the 'church', and told that I was born a sinner.
It didn't sit well with me then, and now I know why.

I know, absolutely, that as I grew, oh yeah...I've sinned.........but I find it EVIL to tell small children that they are sinners, just by design.

I could be wrong on that...and surely, if I am, I'll learn about it.....but I'll never forget it...and I'll never tell a small child that.
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