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Offline Theophilus  
#1 Posted : Saturday, December 8, 2007 5:22:46 PM(UTC)
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Ever since I was a kid reading the "Story of Christmas" I 've been curous about just what sort event the wise men in the east used to make their determination that fortold Messiah was born in Bethlehem and sought to visit him. I've herad a number of theories advanced as to what it likely was that could do all of the things it is described as having done.

I recently found one of Michael Rood's video touch on this subject and followed this by stumbling on a DVD on this topic called "The Star of Bethlehem - Unlocking the Mystery of the World's Most Famous Star" presented by Frederick A. Larson. While NOT a professional astronomer Mr. Larson uses astronomical software to demonstrate his case that Jupiter aka Tsadaq is the best candidate and appeared in extremely bright being that it apperaed to touch Venus in the night sky due south of Jerusalem in the direction of Bethlehem on what in our Pagan calendar's would've been December 25th 2BCE. Mr. Larsen clarifies that the December 25th was likely not the date of Yahushua's birth rather the date when the magi having travelled from the East would have sighted Tsdaq appearing to stand still (in retrograde) over Bethlehem in the southern sky.

What I found interesting is like YY, he notes the inferred date of 4 BCE being an errant propgration and when Johanes Kepler who worked out the mathematics of cestial motion went back the determine what the heavens would've looked like when he proposed Messiah's birth should have been, he was looking he miised the astonishing signs in the sky apparent when one dates Herod's death in 1 BCE. Larson builds also makes a case from the signs in the sky for dating Yahshua's conception (he proposes Taruwah 3 BCE) , birth (Pentecost 2 BCE) as well as the timing of Yahshua's death (Friday April 3rd, 33 CE). He even shows a view of the solar eclipse visible from the moon that was visable from the moon at 3PM Jerusalem local time on April 3, 33 CE that reveals the ram.

If your interested you can see more at Mr Larson's website at www.bethlehemstar.net
Offline gammafighter  
#2 Posted : Saturday, December 8, 2007 6:57:48 PM(UTC)
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I was also looking into this topic recently. Rood says that the three "wise men" were Daniel's successors delivering Daniel's fortune to Yahshua. While this makes perfect sense and would be a wonderful miracle it appears to me to be speculation. Does anyone know of any Scriptural or extra-Scriptural support for this?
Offline Theophilus  
#3 Posted : Sunday, December 9, 2007 9:15:06 AM(UTC)
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Actually Larson mentioned the magi fom the East (Babylon) as certianly being interested in birth of the king (Messiah) in Israel, and also speculated that these likely were following Daniel's school but we don't know this for certain. I agree that it makes sense and is fascinating to ponder.
Offline Heretic Steve  
#4 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2007 10:46:10 AM(UTC)
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I've often wondered how a star could lead to a precise location anywhere, much less a stable in Bethleham, without a sextant and compass. Sometimes I think there is more to this scenario than meets the eye.
If not us, who? If not now, when?
Offline Theophilus  
#5 Posted : Friday, November 14, 2008 10:17:34 AM(UTC)
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I don't think one needs a star to guide a person from Jerusalem the five miles to Bethlehem which I'm told is visiable. The DVD presentation indicates the remarkable aspect was the "star" appearing to stop over the town. If you try the link I posted in the earlier thread you can read able additional aspects of the story occuring. Pretty remarkable in my estimation.
Offline edStueart  
#6 Posted : Friday, November 14, 2008 11:28:51 AM(UTC)
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Heretic Steve wrote:
I've often wondered how a star could lead to a precise location anywhere, much less a stable in Bethleham, without a sextant and compass. Sometimes I think there is more to this scenario than meets the eye.



For our homeschool group, every December 21st, around noon, I demonstrate how you can work out your latitude with an hour glass and a stick.

We can also determine True North during this presentation.

Some of the older boys have seen the presentation enough times that they can do it themselves.

(I'm sure the crew on this forum can work out why the presentation is on the same date and time...)

;-)
"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
But first, it will piss you off!
Offline kp  
#7 Posted : Friday, November 14, 2008 12:15:54 PM(UTC)
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Most excellent Theophilus, I just went back and read the material on the www.bethlehemstar.net website---what a great piece of research. I somehow missed that a year ago when it was first posted. Larson didn't actually come to a chronological bottom line consistent with scripture, but he found some key pieces to the puzzle. We've been trying to figure out when the Magi showed up in Bethlehem, and what the precise order of events to the nativity was. As I pointed out in FH (in terms that I found convincing, even if nobody else did), Yahshua was born in Bethlehem on the Feast of Tabernacles, 2 BC. Larson's astronomical research places the Magi on the trail of the Messiah in Bethlehem in late December of the same year, when Yahshua would have been two or three months old. Matthew (2:1) reports that they showed up "after" Yahshua was born (unlike Luke's report of the shepherds being there on the night of His birth). Matthew then reports that the Magi found Yahshua (now described not as a newborn baby, but a "young Child"---2:9) in a house (2:11) (not a sukkot---a stable or booth where animals might be found) in Bethlehem. Herod died in 1 BC, so the family only had to stay in Egypt for a short time, less than a year. Thanks for bringing this up again.

kp
Offline edStueart  
#8 Posted : Thursday, November 20, 2008 5:00:56 AM(UTC)
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kp wrote:
We've been trying to figure out when the Magi showed up in Bethlehem, and what the precise order of events to the nativity was. As I pointed out in FH (in terms that I found convincing, even if nobody else did), Yahshua was born in Bethlehem on the Feast of Tabernacles, 2 BC.



Sorry for the crosspost, but I think it is relevant:
UserPostedImage
"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
But first, it will piss you off!
Offline Theophilus  
#9 Posted : Thursday, November 20, 2008 7:29:56 AM(UTC)
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You’re most welcome Ken. I've learned so much from you and Yada that it is nice to think we forum folk can also contribute something of value or at least of note.

Ed, thank you so much for sharing the Starry Night image. This was the second marker the DVD presentation mentioned. The first occurred during the Passover of September 3 BCE and were Jupiter (the King Planet) haloing Regulas in a triple conjunction (nearly touching). This occurring in the Lion constellation Leo which is associated with the leader of the tribe of Juda. While the presentation mentioned that an observer in Babylon would face towards Israel to see these events, Ed is the first to my knowledge to have plotted the bearing at sunset during this second convergence (Jupiter and Venus) as the heading to Jerusalem from Babylon.

There is much more on this at the BethlehemStar site reagrding the signs of a coronation, birth of a king, and the "Star" up through stopping over Bethlehem as viewed from Jerusalem here: http://www.bethlehemstar.net/dance/dance.htm
Offline Matthew  
#10 Posted : Sunday, November 23, 2008 2:31:54 PM(UTC)
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This is fascinating stuff, it's amazing how Yahweh has everything so deep. It kinda makes one wonder how deep it actually goes. This serves at yet another confirmation of His existence and brilliance.

Theophilus wrote:
There is much more on this at the BethlehemStar site reagrding the signs of a coronation, birth of a king, and the "Star" up through stopping over Bethlehem as viewed from Jerusalem here: http://www.bethlehemstar.net/dance/dance.htm

They put the stopping of Jupiter on 25 December above Bethlehem. What do you guys make of that?

Was there any specific event in the sky exactly on the Feast of Tabernacles that year? Did the Magi already know He was born by the time of their arrival or did they already know that He was 2 or so months old already?
Offline HawleyluYah  
#11 Posted : Sunday, November 23, 2008 4:19:40 PM(UTC)
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I did some research on this myself some time back, my finding were much different, I'll have to dig it all up, but if I remember correctly the birth would have been 6 or 7 BCE, and Herod's death was 2 BCE, I'll have to look
Offline Matthew  
#12 Posted : Monday, November 24, 2008 10:29:22 AM(UTC)
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kp wrote:
Herod died in 1 BC, so the family only had to stay in Egypt for a short time, less than a year.

On that website they quote Revelation 12:1-5, but what about verse 6? I know kp links it to Israel's flight in the End Times but could the 1260 days also be linked to their journey to Egypt to escape Herod?

1A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. 4His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. 5She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.
Offline edStueart  
#13 Posted : Monday, November 24, 2008 11:04:48 AM(UTC)
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Matthew wrote:
This is fascinating stuff, it's amazing how Yahweh has everything so deep. It kinda makes one wonder how deep it actually goes. This serves at yet another confirmation of His existence and brilliance.


Check out Jupiter as a gravitational vacuum cleaner.

I can just see Yah saying to himself,
Quote:
"Hmmm, I need to put a big ol' planet in this star system, to suck up all the wandering rocks and ice...
And I think I will use this big ol' planet for something a little later on, too...
Heh, heh, heh, a few of them will be able to figure it out..."


This is not even "a marginal reading of the text", just my imagination.


Matthew wrote:
What do you guys make of that?


I can make a hat, a pterodactyl, a ...

(Sorry, I could not resist the Airplane! reference!)
"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
But first, it will piss you off!
Offline bitnet  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:52:20 AM(UTC)
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Shalom,

Yes, ed, Yahweh is really truly awesome with His creation. After closer inspection of the universe and pondering what it all means, it becomes clear why it is written that the whole creation groans waiting for us. Not only is Jupiter the solar systems "middle vacuum", Saturn and the outer planets also keep out more space junk. Look at the history of the formation of the planet earth and one will quickly realise that man could not live at any other point in its history other than in the past few thousand years. Our appearance on earth now really is for now, and in a glacial moment we shall be unable to survive on this planet again. It is no wonder that Scripture points to the need to remake the creation. Oh, and before I go... does anyone realise that most of whatever we see out there in distant space may not actually be there still?
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline edStueart  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, November 26, 2008 5:17:44 AM(UTC)
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bitnet wrote:
does anyone realise that most of whatever we see out there in distant space may not actually be there still?

Yep, what we see in deep space is really many Sagon's away, therefore occurred long ago.
"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
But first, it will piss you off!
Offline edStueart  
#16 Posted : Sunday, December 14, 2008 1:16:49 AM(UTC)
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Miriam's "Season's Greetings" card

Click here to see some "historical fiction" I created.
"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
But first, it will piss you off!
Offline bitnet  
#17 Posted : Monday, December 15, 2008 3:22:52 AM(UTC)
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Shalom,

ed, you're a riot with that fictional letter! But I would have written it differently. I'd have started with "Brrrr... it's cold out here. Even the sheep are freezing their fleece off... thank YHWH I had already given birth a couple of months ago to a lovely baby boy. It was kinda strange having a baby while remaining a virgin but thanks to the visits by the angels both Yahusef and I have been enlightened and comforted and delight in our little family now..."
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline Heretic Steve  
#18 Posted : Monday, December 15, 2008 11:21:25 AM(UTC)
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Yahushua born Oct., 2 BCE, a sabbath. Anybody know the precise date of the day? 7th? 14th?
If not us, who? If not now, when?
Offline In His Name  
#19 Posted : Thursday, December 18, 2008 8:16:09 PM(UTC)
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I missed most of the interview but caught enough to be interested. The author has spent 2000 hours studying the star and come up with some interesting conclusions. His teaser to promote purchase of the video is that the star is part of the beginning (well not the real beginning) and the end. (sorry no details given). I intend on buying a copy and will report back. For those interested the interview is here:

http://www.kkms.com/blogs/JeffandLee/11597003/

and the video is here:

http://www.thestarofbethlehemmovie.com/
“Because he clings to Me, is joined to Me, loves and delights in Me, desires Me, therefore I will deliver him, carry him safely away, cause him to escape from harm making him inaccessible and strong, and delivering him safely to heaven, because he has known, observed, cared for, recognized, instructed and advised others to use, designated, acknowledged, discerned, answered in, My name, authority, character, report, mark, and nature." Psalm 91:14
Offline Yada  
#20 Posted : Sunday, December 21, 2008 5:42:23 AM(UTC)
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It looks like someone with nick `DanielsMagi` has uploaded `The Star of Bethlehem` movie to YouTube.

Part 1 is here.
Part 2 is here.
Part 3 is here.
Part 4 is here.
Part 5 is here.
Part 6 is here.
Part 7 is here.
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Offline Bridget  
#21 Posted : Sunday, December 21, 2008 5:50:03 AM(UTC)
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Why can't I see the links that people are posting?

Example...Yada's link to YouTube videos...'The Star of Bethlehem' ???

Forgive me for being clueless, but I don't see any links. Just the words.
Offline In His Name  
#22 Posted : Sunday, December 21, 2008 6:02:14 AM(UTC)
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Hi Bridget,

My links are on the whole web address, Yada's are on the word here. Put your curser on the words and they should 'light up'. If not I am lost as well.

“Because he clings to Me, is joined to Me, loves and delights in Me, desires Me, therefore I will deliver him, carry him safely away, cause him to escape from harm making him inaccessible and strong, and delivering him safely to heaven, because he has known, observed, cared for, recognized, instructed and advised others to use, designated, acknowledged, discerned, answered in, My name, authority, character, report, mark, and nature." Psalm 91:14
Offline Bridget  
#23 Posted : Sunday, December 21, 2008 6:07:01 AM(UTC)
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Oh! I see now!!!
Thank You!!! Yay
Offline Yada  
#24 Posted : Sunday, December 21, 2008 6:10:19 AM(UTC)
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Just mouse your mouse over the word `here`to activate the link.
If you'd like to join the YY Study Group room on Paltalk - just click here. The lockword is: yadayahweh
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Offline Yada  
#25 Posted : Sunday, December 21, 2008 9:21:37 PM(UTC)
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Thinking he might be interested, I passed along the links to the video to Yada. This was his response:

Quote:
This isn't of much interest to me because most of these guys base their stuff on the wrong dates. Moreover, I'm satisfied to understand what can be learned from the Word.

Yada
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Offline Robskiwarrior  
#26 Posted : Tuesday, December 23, 2008 10:42:50 AM(UTC)
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The BBC have decided to have a go.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7791571.stm
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline Bridget  
#27 Posted : Tuesday, December 23, 2008 2:55:45 PM(UTC)
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Yada is so intense.
Snappy, forceful and intense.
Reminds me of myself, so it doesn't turn me off.
But he sure doesn't mince words, does he? Certainly know where ya stand with him!
:)
Offline Theophilus  
#28 Posted : Tuesday, December 23, 2008 5:41:49 PM(UTC)
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Yada wrote:
Thinking he might be interested, I passed along the links to the video to Yada. This was his response:
Quote:
Quote:
This isn't of much interest to me because most of these guys base their stuff on the wrong dates. Moreover, I'm satisfied to understand what can be learned from the Word.

Yada




I'm sorry to see that Yada took so little interest and seems not have have yet viewed or considered the information contained in the presentation as I'd love to hear his thoughts given his interest in astronomy and history in better understanding Scripture. Specifically
I'm curious as to which date or dates Yada believes are in error and why? If they're off I'd like to understand why that is?

It seems to me the dates used both for Yahushua's advent (2 BCE) and crucifixion (33 CE) are based on astronomical data and align well with dates that he sites in YY. The one difference I notice is that the video like just about every source I've consulted indicates the date conversions to Gregorian for the Spring of 33 CE to be off by two dates later than what Yada sites (i.e. Friday Nisan 14, 33 CE = April 3rd rather than April 1st). That leads me to wonder what source he used to establish the date conversion?

On another note, thank you for sharing the fact that the presentation now is up on u-tube and the links. I was surprised while channel surfing the TV guide recently to see the Catholic Network (EWTN) featured this presentation although the speaker is to my knowledge not Catholic.
Offline Theophilus  
#29 Posted : Wednesday, December 24, 2008 4:55:32 AM(UTC)
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Swalchy wrote:
Hi Theophilus - I believe that the April 3rd date is actually the Julian Calendar date, and not the Gregorian one. The Julian Calendar date is 2 dates off the Gregorian, making April 3rd, JC = April 1st, GC.


Hello Swalchy, I did some checking and believe that you, Yada and Ken are correct and my understanding was in reverse. I was thinking the JC to GC 2 day difference went the other direction.

I found what I was looking for; a calendar conversion source that agrees with you at this link works: http://www.calendarhome.com/converter/

If you plug in 33 CE April 1st and you'll see that the day is calculated as a Friday Nisan 14, 3793 on the Hebrew calendar, while the Julian date is April 3rd. I noticed that this date is also useful for converting dates into BCE as well.

Do the Miqra fall on the same dates of the Hebrew Calendar each regular year? We know Passover as Nisan/Abib 14 +0, Unleavened Bread +1, First Fruits +2, and Weeks +49 or 50? Do the Fall Miqras also land on the same dates or is Trumpets not able to be calculated accurately?

Edited by user Saturday, December 27, 2008 8:19:56 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline edStueart  
#30 Posted : Wednesday, December 24, 2008 6:56:35 AM(UTC)
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Theophilus wrote:
Do the Miqra fall on the same dates of the Hebrew Calendar each regular year? We know Passover as Nisan/Abib 14 +0, Unleavened Bread +1, First Fruits +2, and Weeks +49 or 50? Do the Fall Miqras also land on the same dates or is Trumpets not able to be calculated accurately?


I asked my friend, Abe, "Why is Passover always on a different day of the year?"

He replied: "Vat are you talking about? It alvays is on 14 Nisan?"
"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
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Offline Yada  
#31 Posted : Wednesday, December 24, 2008 4:33:53 PM(UTC)
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I just got this from Yada:

Quote:
As for the astrological questions: the timing of the Daniel prophecy, the timing of Passover, Unleavened Bread, and FirstFruits, and the Thrusday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday sequence all attested in Scripture are in sync with the the timeline I've stated in 33. There are no other dates, days, or years in which this all matches the testimony. So while I've read books which claim otherwise, they were all crafted by Christians ignorant of the Miqra'ey. Scripture tells us the day of the week, and it gives us the timing of Passover. And the only question which is then at issue is what year to start Daniel's prediction.

All that's really important is that it was Passover, Unleavened Bread and FirstFruits, and that a weekly Sabbath occured on the first day of UB, not what day of the year they occured on our pagan calendar. I've only referenced those dates to help people correlate Yah's timeline with the corrupt tools we use today--and because the math is easier on extending Daniel.

As for 2 BCE, I've written more on this than the topic deserves in my opinion. Other than knowing that it was Sukah, not Christmas, the year isn't all that important. I've read two books on the "sign," of Virgo and with the moon beneath her feet and yet, since I can't confirm it Scripturally, nor derive any meaningful spiritual message from it, it just doesn't mean very much to me. In fact it is out of sync with the Gen one prophecy because the moon is much brighter than the stars.

While I don't invest much time apart from reading and translating Scripture, when I do, it is usually to verify that what we are being told is reliable. And most sources I use for doing so are filled with mistakes. For example, Ron Wyatt found the Exodus crossing and Mt. Horeb, but his writings on Egyptology are horrible. David Rohl's a Test of Time is great on Egyptology, and its intersection with Scripture, but horrible on the Exodus. The same could well be true of the "sign" video.

So, if the guy makes a great case for an eclipse on Passover, a Friday afternoon in 33, great. Write a couple of paragraphs on it and send it to me. But if it's not on Passover, don't bother. Likewise, if there is a paragraph of material that should be included in the section which discusses the Tabernacles 2 BCE date, have someone send it to me. Even if it points to 4 BCE, that's fine too.

Yada


If you`re interested in writing something, perhaps you can also post it to this thread so that everyone can read and benefit from it.

Thanks.
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Offline In His Name  
#32 Posted : Thursday, December 25, 2008 10:50:27 AM(UTC)
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Hopefully this will give a flavor of the story. The BOLD words are directly from the website, the rest is my synopsis of the story.
The website with most of the text of the video and much more detail is HERE

We now know much about the Star.
(9 points of knowledge from Matthew chapter 2)

1. It signified birth.
2. It signified kingship.
3. It had a connection with the Jewish nation.
4. It rose in the east, like other stars.
5. It appeared at a precise time.
6. Herod didn't know when it appeared.

September, 3 BCE (conception)
Saturn (Planet of Kings) comes into close conjunction with Regulus (Star of Kings) which is not uncommon. However, over the next several months, due to retrograde motion, the conjuction repeats twice more. This triple starry coronation occurred in the constellation of Leo. Judah is tied to the Lion symbol (Gen 49:9), tying this King to the Jews.
As Jupiter and Regulus were first meeting in Leo, the constellation Virgo was just rising in sunlight with a new moon at her feet, As witnessed in Revelation;
[1 A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. 4 His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron sceptre...]
These stellar events were relatively common; Regulus and Saturn conjoin every 12 years but the triple conjunction is rare, these events would be largely unnoticed except by experts.
This symbolism is believed to indicate the time of conception.

7. It endured over time.
8. It was ahead of the Magi as they went south from Jerusalem to Bethlehem.
9. It stopped over Bethlehem.

June, 2 BCE (birth)
December 25, 2 BCE (Magi arrive)
By June 2 BCE Jupiter was done with Regulus and coming into conjuction with Venus. This created the brightest star in the sky and was completed at the western horizon, placing the ‘Star’ above Judea from the perspective of Babylon. The Magi followed the star to the region where they checked in with Herod in Jerusalem. From there in the wee hours of the morning on December 25 BCE Jupiter stopped (retrograde motion) and hung low in the sky directly to the south, over Bethlehem.

April 3, 33 CE (crucifixion)
Mr Larson uses Scriptural and historical information to date the crucifixion to 33 CE, then adds the celestial bonus. The moon rose that evening in full eclipse, with the only light upon it bending around the earth. This bending caused a red shift in the light spectrum and created a blood red moon. The start of the eclipse was 3pm, below the horizon and the moon rose in Jerusalem blood red. To top this off the moon had returned to the feet of Virgo, this time a full moon, a life fully lived. This blood moon is referenced by Peter:
Listen and consider as Peter argues from the words of the prophet Joel recorded circa 835 BC. From the Book of Acts, Chapter 2:

"14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: "Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. 15 These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It's only nine in the morning! 16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: 17 "`In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. 18 Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy. 19 I will show wonders in the heaven above and signs on the earth below, blood and fire and billows of smoke. 20 The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord. 21 And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.'"


In the video and not on the website Mr Larson also shares the event from a vantage point on the moon. At the time of Yahshua’s death standing on the moon we witness a solar eclipse with the earth coming in front of the sun creating a fiery halo. In the starfield directly behind this is the Ram constellation, with the halo directly on it’s heart.
“Because he clings to Me, is joined to Me, loves and delights in Me, desires Me, therefore I will deliver him, carry him safely away, cause him to escape from harm making him inaccessible and strong, and delivering him safely to heaven, because he has known, observed, cared for, recognized, instructed and advised others to use, designated, acknowledged, discerned, answered in, My name, authority, character, report, mark, and nature." Psalm 91:14
Offline In His Name  
#33 Posted : Thursday, December 25, 2008 5:36:06 PM(UTC)
In His Name
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Theophilus wrote:
Ever since I was a kid reading the "Story of Christmas" I 've been curous about just what sort event the wise men in the east used to make their determination that fortold Messiah was born in Bethlehem and sought to visit him. I've herad a number of theories advanced as to what it likely was that could do all of the things it is described as having done.

I recently found one of Michael Rood's video touch on this subject and followed this by stumbling on a DVD on this topic called "The Star of Bethlehem - Unlocking the Mystery of the World's Most Famous Star" presented by Frederick A. Larson. While NOT a professional astronomer Mr. Larson uses astronomical software to demonstrate his case that Jupiter aka Tsadaq is the best candidate and appeared in extremely bright being that it apperaed to touch Venus in the night sky due south of Jerusalem in the direction of Bethlehem on what in our Pagan calendar's would've been December 25th 2BCE. Mr. Larsen clarifies that the December 25th was likely not the date of Yahushua's birth rather the date when the magi having travelled from the East would have sighted Tsdaq appearing to stand still (in retrograde) over Bethlehem in the southern sky.

What I found interesting is like YY, he notes the inferred date of 4 BCE being an errant propgration and when Johanes Kepler who worked out the mathematics of cestial motion went back the determine what the heavens would've looked like when he proposed Messiah's birth should have been, he was looking he miised the astonishing signs in the sky apparent when one dates Herod's death in 1 BCE. Larson builds also makes a case from the signs in the sky for dating Yahshua's conception (he proposes Taruwah 3 BCE) , birth (Pentecost 2 BCE) as well as the timing of Yahshua's death (Friday April 3rd, 33 CE). He even shows a view of the solar eclipse visible from the moon that was visable from the moon at 3PM Jerusalem local time on April 3, 33 CE that reveals the ram.

If your interested you can see more at Mr Larson's website at www.bethlehemstar.net



I just went back to the beginning to read through this thread again. Theo had Yada's write up done from the beginning!

Matthew wrote:
kp wrote:
Herod died in 1 BC, so the family only had to stay in Egypt for a short time, less than a year.

Matthew wrote:
On that website they quote Revelation 12:1-5, but what about verse 6? I know kp links it to Israel's flight in the End Times but could the 1260 days also be linked to their journey to Egypt to escape Herod?

1A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. 4His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. 5She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.


It seems Yah is always writing on many levels. Herod died earlier, but I don't recall any reason that they could not have stayed for 1260 days, only that the Angel told them it was safe to return. Nice catch Matthew.
“Because he clings to Me, is joined to Me, loves and delights in Me, desires Me, therefore I will deliver him, carry him safely away, cause him to escape from harm making him inaccessible and strong, and delivering him safely to heaven, because he has known, observed, cared for, recognized, instructed and advised others to use, designated, acknowledged, discerned, answered in, My name, authority, character, report, mark, and nature." Psalm 91:14
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