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Offline visitor  
#1 Posted : Saturday, December 6, 2008 1:58:06 PM(UTC)
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I`m still trying to figure this out. In YY Tsadaq chapter it says:

Quote:
What's also interesting is that now that the Set-Apart Spirit has returned to Yahuweh, God has become plural again: 'elohiym rather than 'el. Also, deprived of the Spirit, the Messiah no longer considers Himself Yahushua. Fortunately, this horrible beginning has a happy ending. Spirit, soul, and body will be reunited at the resurrection.


But, later in this same chapter, Yada writes:

Quote:
There would be no rest as Yahushua's Soul, not Yahuweh's Spirit, descended into the darkness of Gehenna - the one place God Himself could not go. The Pit, which is transformed into the Abyss, is the lightless home of the Adversary. Yahshua's soul would suffer there, as His body had suffered on the pole.


If this is the one place God can not go, how is it that Yahshua`s soul was retrieved?

Is anyone else having trouble understanding this?
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#2 Posted : Saturday, December 6, 2008 11:06:55 PM(UTC)
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Good post visitor :)

would he need to go there to retrive it? or could he just say the word?
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline Theophilus  
#3 Posted : Monday, December 8, 2008 3:46:48 AM(UTC)
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Robskiwarrior wrote:
Good post visitor :)

would he need to go there to retrive it? or could he just say the word?


You summed up my thoughts on this as well.

I was curious if we can infer anything useful about this from Yahshua's account of the rich man and Lazeraus in Sheol?

I was also thinking of the Last Trumpet sounding descriptions associated with the harvest of souls. It sounds like more of an irresistable summoning of souls than Yah going to Sheol to remove them directly.
Offline kp  
#4 Posted : Monday, December 8, 2008 7:36:30 AM(UTC)
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I believe the confusion on this issue can be dissipated by a more careful use of the terminology of the afterlife that Yahweh uses. Yada referred to Gehenna as "the one place where God cannot go." Then Theophilus inquires about sheol, the universal abode of the dead (at least before the resurrection). But they're not the same thing. Might I suggest going back and reading chapter 30 of Future History--- http://www.futuretruth.n...ll_and_Eternity.Prophecy . There I examine all the words and concepts in scripture defining the eternal destinations of mortal man. Of significance to our present discussion...

Quote:
By chapter 19, Job has emerged from his blue funk. Though his circumstances haven’t changed, his long-range outlook is now totally optimistic: “For I know that my Redeemer lives, and He shall stand at last on the earth; and after my skin is destroyed, this I know, that in my flesh I shall see God, whom I shall see for myself, and my eyes shall behold, and not another. How my heart yearns within me.” (Job 19:25-27) That’s bodily resurrection—precisely the same thing Paul described in I Corinthians 15. (We discussed it in detail, if you’ll recall, back in chapter 8). Job’s observation is worth noting: if you have no living Redeemer—One who has paid your debt—you will not see God.

To what can we attribute the change in Job’s demeanor? It came about as he remembered the character of his God—a God whose power reached even into the grave. “The dead tremble, those under the waters and those inhabiting them. Sheol is naked before Him, and Destruction has no covering.” (Job 26:5-6) David concurs: “Where can I go from your Spirit? Or where can I flee from your presence? If I ascend into heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in sheol, behold, You are there.” (Psalm 139:7-8) Notice something important here. Hell, in the ultimate sense of the word, is a place where the lost are separated from Yahweh—that’s what makes it hell. But this is not the case with sheol, at least not all of it. Hell and sheol therefore cannot be the same thing.


Also, the following passage may shed some light on a dark subject...

Quote:
The place we normally think of as hell—the place “prepared for the devil and his angels” of which Yahshua spoke—isn’t actually designated by any of these epithets. It’s merely described in symbolic terms: in Revelation it’s called “the lake of fire.” We saw it (though not as a lake) in the warning of the angel to the Tribulation populace not to accept the mark of the Beast: “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.” (Revelation 14:9-11) The passage describes the fate of a particular group of non-believers—those who overtly worshipped Satan and his Antichrist during the Tribulation. There’s no destruction or dissipation of souls here: these are all destined for what we’ve been calling door number three. Notice: (1) they are in a fiery torment—just like the rich man in Yahshua’s story; (2) the ordeal never ceases—it goes on without a break for all eternity; and (3) they are “before” [Greek: enopion] or “in the presence or sight of” both Yahshua and His angels—casting into doubt the idea that hell is “merely” a place devoid of the presence of Yahweh. God is Spirit, omnipotent and omniscient—it’s not simply a case of being there or not being there. Clearly the Lamb and His angels are witnesses to God’s wrath. It is left to our conjecture, however, whether that implies their presence or merely their knowledge of the administration of the “cup of His indignation.”


So although we have a pretty good idea of what kind of "hell" awaits satan and his followers, we are not told in clear, unambiguous terms where Yahshua's soul was on the Feast of Unleavened Bread---when His body lay in the tomb. We are told that having been "put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, [He] went and preached to the the spirits in prison, who formerly [before the flood] were disobedient..." (I Peter 3:19) But that doesn't tell us much---it could mean nothing more than spending time in sheol.

kp
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